Abortion to be reduced to 20 weeks

i think personally i'd find having a baby adopted out would be less traumatic than aborting it.

That's how you feel and that's fine, but I'm nearly at the end of a planned but truely horrific pregnancy involving several hospital stays and long periods of pain and sickness. Even though I always wanted my baby not a day went by without considering the option of abortion. I can't imagine how other ladies that went through a horrible pregnancy (that was for some reason unwanted), but who were forced to keep it feel.

Isn't abortion a bit like gay marriage in the;

"If you don't want gay marriage, don't have one"
"If you don't want abortion, don't have one"

approach.

Why should you limit what others choose to do.

Very well said

Isn't abortion a bit like gay marriage in the;

"If you don't want gay marriage, don't have one"
"If you don't want abortion, don't have one"

approach.

Why should you limit what others choose to do.

I think there was a survey once linked on here comparing mental health outcomes for women who aborted an unwanted pregnancy vs those who carried it through and went for adoption. I don't remember the details but I think adoption in those cases led to some mental health issues.

i think personally i'd find having a baby adopted out would be less traumatic than aborting it

That's how you feel, and that's fine, no one is going to stop you doing that should you ever be in that situation.

Personally for me, adoption isn't an option. If I had an unexpected pregnancy it would be abortion or keep the baby, adoption wouldn't even be on the table. That's how I feel, and those feelings are equally as valid as yours.

"i think personally i'd find having a baby adopted out would be less traumatic than aborting it. so far i still feel 24wks is just too late to abort a healthy fetus, most women could do it earlier."

Those who think they would find abortion more traumatic than adoption don't abort. It's a very valid reason not to abort - but it isn't impacted by a law that allows abortion, it would only be impacted by one that requires abortion. The UK doesn't require women to abort in any circumstances.

Also, most women do have abortions earlier than 24 weeks. Even after 20 weeks is very rare.

Here you go blackcurrants - nearly 60% of all women who have an abortion in the USA already have a child.

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22689931/ns/health-womens_health/t/whos-getting-abortions-not-who-youd-think/#.UG7Ahk3R58E

It doesn't surprise me - healthcare costs are crippling and there is so little welfare; a new child could have a devastating effect on the family and ruin the life of an older sibling. :(

EmmelineGoulden
The real alternative to abortion on demand is children being brought up by women who didn't want them or in circumstances women felt were not suitable.

This.
I can't believe there are women who seem to think oh well, everyone is having abortions at 24 weeks/wants to abort at 30 weeks.

But start putting more limits,a nd you play into the hand of pro-lifers. I expect if Romney gets in Wade v Roe is for the chop...

Mumno are you against abortion at any gestation unless the mother's life or health is in serious danger? Or are you in favour of a lower limit? Sorry I am not quite clear on your position.

dowa medical or emotional yes but how do you define emotional? theres a big difference between the person who is upset by ab unexpected pg and has to rethink plans budget etc and the woman who is depressed or unable to come to terms with being pg.

as i posted ^thread my relative was 15wks due to the time it took for docs to arrange.

i don't pretend to have all the answers or thankfully even personal experience. i do have opinions but am open to changing them which is why ive entered this debate. just putting some ideas out there. i think personally i'd find having a baby adopted out would be less traumatic than aborting it. so far i still feel 24wks is just too late to abort a healthy fetus, most women could do it earlier.

Very few babies are actually put up for adoption, especially now coercion is much more difficult and forced adoptions have a lot of oversight and bureaucracy. I don't think the alternative to late abortion is adoption - it just doesn't work out that way.

The real alternative to abortion on demand is children being brought up by women who didn't want them or in circumstances women felt were not suitable.

mumnows - the current legislation is that abortion can only be carried out until 24 weeks unless the foetus has a condition incompatible with life. So your relative can't have been about to give birth when she had her abortion.

Are you saying that no women should be allowed abortion unless there's a good medical reason?

maybe i'm not explaining myself clearly. i'm not against abortion if it will be detrimental to health physical or mental but find the term wooly and could be applied to most situations imo.

mumnos - why is mental health less important than other health aspects? Mental health problems can be and often are lethal.

I think it's a bit more complicated than "oh but the pretty little babies can all just be adopted and everything's fine and dandy".

i'm talking about women where the risks are only emotional. not belittling depression either but where a baby doesn't fit in with a life plan or isn't planned/wanted. i don't think these problems out weigh the rights of the fetus/baby. Nor did i suggest putting them on a ward with mums and babies --don't think women who have mc or lost babies should be on these wards either.

I have to laugh at the adopted out idea - really? So force a woman to carry the child, deliver it, then what? - would the woman go to a post delivery ward, a special ward?, a ward with women whose babies have died?

Countries where abortion is illegal, as far as I know don't have an endless ream of babies waiting to be "adopted out".

I wouldn't have a late abortion (well I hope I never have to face that choice), but no way do I want to legislate on other womens emotional health. I really do doubt that as many posters have said that a woman is going to wake up and go "oh think I'll abort my 30 week foetus today" Any women that I know who've had an abortion have thought long and hard and tearfully about it and have made a choice which as far as I know was, they feel, the right decision for them.

i think we should differentiate rules and opinions depending on reasons for the abortion. I don't think many would oppose abortion even to term when the mothers life or health is at risk. Surely in really late cases the baby could be delivered and adopted out though?

i have a bit ofc a problem with the idea of 'mothers health' being affected. This is a bit blurry to me. physical health yes but i'm not sure about emotional health (prepared to be convimced otherwise). my
relative had an abortion on these grounds but i'm not sure that the upset she would have suffered outweigh the baby's rights to live. I know pg can't always be prevented currently cuddling my much loved accident but i know of people who have had multiple abortions because of breakups with partners/lack of education/care/not using contracrption/even reality kicking in :( imo that is wrong.

Maria Miller is anti abortion. One of the few MPs who voted for Nadine Dorries (AKA fruit loop) amendment intended to ban BPAS from pre abortion counselling and open it up to church funded anti abortion groups.

Maria Miller, the Women's Minister, is saying that it makes "common sense" to lower the limit to 20 weeks, based on an assertion that "care for extremely premature babies has improved rapidly"

The RCOG dispute this & say there is no evidence to support the statement.

It's not about the care of premature babies!!! I really wish people would understand how much premature babies suffer in NICU & the rates of disability & poor health.

Nor I am saying we shouldn't spend money on premature babies.

It's not that simple!

blackcats I think it is because of the way the pro-life movement tries to gloss over the issues that very prem babies face. NOT because lotsof or me think prem babies are not worth saving.

I am very positive about disability (iyswim) so do not think a disabled child is a tragedy but it is dishonest of people like Maria Miller to pretend that if prem babies survive they do so with no problems.
Of course some do.
But I work with preschool children with delays and disabilities and a large percentage were prem. Sometimes their problems are not apparent until they are due to start school, often they are present from a very early age.

My DD cost tens of thousands of pounds. She wasn't prem but she got cancer. Some of her injections cost 1k each! She was worth every penny as is your child.

blackcats yes, I agree my DS was worth every penny. And yours too. There is no debate about that. Or anyone being involved in a car crash requiring treatment which costs that much, either.

I wanted to dispel the myth that babies born very prematurely can survive easily, without intervention, which seems to be the view of some posters on this thread.

I am a HCP. Part of my clinical role involves working in an obstetric service. Plus I have extensive first-hand experience of life in NICU. So that's where my information comes from.

Make no woman carry a foetus to term unless she wants to is what I believe.

Maria Miller being Minister for Women is a fucking joke. Then again, David Cameron, father of disabled child, doesn't give a fuck about them either.

LOTSOFCHEESE

Where did you get your information from? My 30 weeker is 9, fit healthy and doing well. I think it's 28 weeks that there is little risk of permament damage. Term babies can be damaged..

"So I don't think the argument should be about visibility, but whether the mother wants the baby (or not). Just because a baby could potentially survive at great cost doesn't mean women should be denied terminations."

I couldn't disagree with your post more. And I think that you'd struggle to find healthcare professionals who would terminate a post 24 week fetus.

"My DS, a premature baby who survived at great cost is a £100K+ baby. "
So if he had a car accident and would cost 100k he should be left to die?

I would pay more taxes if they went towards saving ill babies lives. As a tax payer your DS was worth every penny. As was mine, at your reckoning a 42K baby and worth every penny.
www.patient.co.uk/doctor/premature-babies-and-their-problems

In reference to the link, it hasn't really changed my opinion much tbh, at my most lenient I would grant the abortion but (controversial) should remain on enforced contraception until they are fit to carry a child full term or abort at a more appropriate stage.

The idea of having it done once is horrific, twice is just nihilistic.

IMO dating scans should be given much earlier.

Ok, I stand corrected mousymouse but even so you are killing something that could survive on the outside world 36+ baby.

Ps a NICU cot costs £1K per day to run. My DS, a premature baby who survived at great cost is a £100K+ baby.