Have you seen the Saudi version of the catalogue? I am so dissapointed with IKEA.

"thical choices have to be absolute and complete or they are pointless"

That is ridiculous. No one is perfect, no one is immune to ethical dilemma. So does that mean we should never make any effort? Bring on the raping and pillaging.

uppercut why are you here?

MoreBeta I don't drive. I walk everywhere within the town (not a large town anyway) and use public transport on rare occasions when I have to go somewhere else. I buy local products as much as possible, thus reducing the need for transport over long distances, and making it easier to boycott large companies I disapprove of for one reason or another. I heat my home in winter with a real fire, logs sourced locally. There's not much more I can do at home to support my principles, but I can write a letter, because I believe our voices must be heard. People need to be aware of what we are saying. They might not be interested, but the seeds of awareness will be sown, and perhaps gradually they will grow. If no one writes or complains, then there is no hope of future change

Any ethics at all are better than none, "lite" or otherwise. I agree with MooncupGoddess. No improvements with human rights or any other issues would ever be made if we all took the attitude that there is no point in doing anything if you can't/won't do everything.

In this instance, IKEA could have dealt with the cultural issue in SA in the way described by BranchingOut rather than just taking the easy/cheap route of removing all the women completely.

Branching Out's idea sounds good.

MoreBeta loving ethics lite

I'm shocked by the fact that it says in the article that Starbucks removed the woman from their logo 'just leaving her crown' when they opened in Saudi!
Last time they get any money from this woman.

Its 'ethics lite' that what I call it.

'ethical choices have to be absolute and complete or they are pointless'

Actually I totally disagree with this, MoreBeta, and it leads to a reductive position where person X is told they can't criticise their neighbours for having an unnecessary petrol-guzzling SUV because person X occasionally rents a Nissan Micra to go away for the weekend. Almost all ethical choices of this sort operate on a continuum.

Having said that, I agree that people need to look at their own ethical choices rather than just moaning about other people's; but much better they reduce their contribution to environmental damage a little than not at all.

To my mind, the best compromise would have been for the catalogue to use pictures of women - wearing headscarves and loose clothing, but these pictures should have showed women:

gathering together with other women
gathering in mixed groups with other men, maybe in a family context
reading
studying
smiling
laughing
assembling flatpack furniture
telephoning
using the computer
walking around outside
loading the flatpack furniture into a car

So, 'Saudi appropriate' in dress, but leading full and active lives, therefore just pushing the boundaries of what might be depicted in Saudi Arabia.

.... and another thing.

All the gold that has ever been mined in the whole history of the World fits into a cube 20m x 20m x 20m and half of that cube is held in the form of jewellery. Quite of a lot of it mined in South Africa under apartheid or in other places that have dire human rights records and by miners working in apalling conditions. Anyone going to get rid of their wedding rings?

The point I am making is that ethical choices have to be absolute and complete or they are pointless. Its like people that bleat on about climate change and then drive a car, heat their home and fly away on family holidays using fossil fuels. They like telling other people and corporations what to do but when making a hard choice to stop using carbon fuels that actually impacts on them personally - well they become a bit less adamant about it all.

It is equally impractical for IKEA to not comply with local law and customs in Saudi Arabia or indeed in other countries around the World.

What you can practically do is write to IKEA and tell them you will never buy an IKEA product again and explain why you feel that way.

I personally don't buy IKEA products or petrol/diesel so I think my hands are fairly clean on this one.

MoreBeta - just because things are that way, doesn't mean we have to like it or that we shouldn't try to find ways of changing them. If complaints to IKEA work to change their sexist policy, what is wrong with that?

It is obviously impractical to stop buying products using oil - even if you stopped using a car, by taking other forms of transport you would no doubt be colluding in the purchase of oil from SA.

We have to make our voices heard where they can be and try to influence change where we have power to do so. If you like the status quo, then good for you, but don't criticise others from complaining/trying to do something about it, even if that is only in a small way.

MoreBeta that's true and depressing.

Startailoforangeandgold - I suggest you should immediately stop buying oil/petrol/diesel and stop using vehicles that burn oil/petrol/diesel.

Just saying like.

local custom = twee
human rights = bit more serious

crude il = crude oil

As soon as I see the word Saudi I know my feminist hackles will rise and blood will boil.

Makes me sick we let them get away with so much because they have oil.

no there is a cat

You all buy Saudi crude il when you fill up your car with petrol.

In fact we all buy a lot of products from countries with reprehensible human rights records.

It is not posisble to avoid it and Ikea should not be castigated for complying with local customs where they do business. It is how the world is - unless you want to stop buying petrol and millions of other imported products.

Well, they've said yes to the horses now. I just had an email. You'll just have to send in your own suggestion. Not cats though because people don't like to see cats in catalogues for some reason. Have a flick through a couple of catalogues, you won't see one single cat.

I dont want any horses running through my beautiful new kitchen Ikea or not !

I'm horsist !

Nailak, what do you mean by 'uncovered'? Is a woman dressed in pyjamas (long sleeves, long trousers, very loose-fitting) 'uncovered'? Just out of interest.

I have written to Ikea about this. My suggestion was to use horses instead of people. Horses don't offend anyone. My suggestion is being 'considered'.

I agree that tit would have been unrealistic for the magazine to go out with uncovered women, and instead they should have used covered women.