Violence Against Women

Incidentally, I simply do not believe an 'expert' would need to C&P links. An expert would remember what they read, and would be able to summarize it such a way as would demonstrate their expertise.

You would be referring us to specific authors, or papers by their titles - not blog posts.

Forgive me, but I do not believe you.

You claimed to be an expert. You clearly wished to discuss the subject - you started a thread - but you cannot back up your claims.

Please either post the links and discuss them with us properly, or retract your claim to be an expert.

That was to Eats obviously.

Do you ever take anything in, or only things that come from your very narrow point of reference?

Yes, but if you are an expert, you will be familiar with many research papers.

I would like their citation info, please.

And then we can discuss what they're saying and how they fit into the general scholarship.

Seriously - if you are an expert, I would love the chance to do this. I only have subscription for a short while more, so would really like to read what you've read.

It'll be fun: we can discuss them and you can do a precis of what they're all about for us.

No, sorry, I asked for original research papers, please.

I know there are lots of them. Since I have a university subscription to journals, I'd like your recommendations of those you've read, while I can access them too.

Thanks.

You know what i think I am going to report this whole thread, the level of ignorance and prejudice against mental illness is shocking and very upsetting.

If the other posters though think it worthwhile talking this through some more I will hold off.

Eats - so are you a 'professional' in this field? Or have you just read some stuff, like anyone else can?
As I'd said, and most posters here remember, there were multi-threads on the subject of transgender, and a few transgendered people contributed. I'd indicated my personal and professional interest in the discussion.
For me, amongst others, I know v well a F-M person - he is now v happy with 3 children. He was on a radio4 prog with Michael Burke a few years ago where he spoke eloquently about his experience as a 'girl' and how 'wrong' and unhappy he was. No media black out there.

And, it's fairly arrogant, or at least rude, to post an OP like this and wander off.
No wonder you've accrued a name as the sort of poster that you have.

A la above.."I'm out".

As usual, this is an interesting debate in theory but this thread is upsetting and comes across as deliberately provocative.

I'm glad I didn't click the link - and I partly didn't click it because the OP, who's been told before how to do links, doesn't think anyone reading deserves the basic courtesy of providing a proper one. Or apparently of providing trigger warnings.

Maybe this is a good moment to point out that we can't trust that the credentials people claim on the net, are real. People on this thread may be medical experts in transgender surgery (though it would seem strange if those same people were also ideologically opposed to the practice). But we don't know.

Reading original research papers does not make one a medical expert, but since they're all I can get, if I could have a link to them, please, that would be useful.

Jeeso, have a word with yourself Eats. Would you say the same about lipo suction, or gastric band fitting. What about nose jobs, or ear pinning?

Your whole argument is that those women who believe that they would be better off as a male are sick. So you would what go back to electric shock therapy, use of strong drugs that alter the mind? Thats what they used to do to gay people, or anyone else who did not conform to a stereotype. Except in this instance it is a feminist stereotype. How emancipated of you.

Who exactly would pay for this treatment? You clearly locate the problem in the individual so they would pay for the drugs, the psychologists, therapists etc. It certainly will not be the nhs as their exists a proven treatment that seems cost effective and successful. I do not think that the nhs will not be spending resources on two different methods of treating the same issue.

Throughout history, there have always been people who have attempted to pathologise "difference," in people they regarded as inferior to them. Sometimes they argued that biologically they were inferior (e.g. race, sex,) and sometimes they labelled people with mental illnesses rather than considering that their behaviour was a not unreasonable response to prejudice (e.g. African Caribbean and Irish immigrants to the UK this century.)

This insistence that trans people are suffering only from a mental illness that should be "cured" with psychiatric drugs or talking cures only is a more recent manifestation of this.

I'm not going to click the link. I used to be a nurse and did placement in operating theatres and surgical wards. Many surgical procedures are very gory to watch - during and in the aftermath - including things like hip replacements and nasal resections. Those procedures could be called "mutilation" as well, but it seems alarmist to use the term when referring to a procedures that improves the physical and/or mental health and well being of the patient.

So sorry, it's not something one can compare to anorexia or self-harming because there is clearly NO positive physical or mental health outcome as a result of the individual's actions.