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Original poster

Violence Against Women

514 replies

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 30/09/2012 12:27

Just been reading this blog post which talks about women who Transition as violence against women. I agree with her.

[Warning from MNHQ - this contains graphic images]

dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/transition-violence-against-women.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheDirtFromDirt+(The+dirt+from+Dirt)

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Original poster
EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 01/10/2012 22:01

Women and men who detransition or say they regret it have posted their stories on the net as to why. They are massively attacked by some Trans people who want to hide the fact that so many regret it.

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kim147 · 01/10/2012 21:54

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Original poster
EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 01/10/2012 21:45

42 is the median age for transition when men are taken into account. It is not the median age for women. Women usually transition very young

Yes women have been dressing as men for centuries because society would not allow them to do certain jobs or behave in a certain way when they were women. That is not the same as them thinking they are men.

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Leithlurker · 01/10/2012 21:16

Utter bollocks, this is not new at all what is new is the surgical treatment. Women have been dressing and acting as men for centuries. Many accounts of women dressing as soldiers, or sailors, going to war in some cases being very successful as men, including marrying other women. These were women plainly wishing to be men.

kim147 · 01/10/2012 21:11

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kim147 · 01/10/2012 21:10

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Original poster
EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 01/10/2012 21:07

Most women who transition are very young i.e. teenage girls or very early twenties. And the truth this is all too new for us to know the lobg term consequences for women. There is some suggestion taht atking tetesterone may increase their risk of cancer and heart diseas. But really they are being experimented on.

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MmeLindor · 01/10/2012 21:00

10% is not a lot, Eats. That means 90% are happy and do not regret it

I am not saying that the 10% who are unhappy don't concern me - their happiness is important, and there must be lessons learned from them to ensure that the percentage sinks.

But would you have 90% live unhappy for the sake of this group?

I don't believe in therapy (other than counselling) for children. Once they are older, they can make up their minds. I would worry that they might be influenced by parents.

MiniTheMinx · 01/10/2012 20:54

It is a huge concern Eats, yes. I think that people are people and I can accept difference. Gender reasignment and hormones for minors, step too far.

I was a "tomboy" (hate that term) I am now very dainty although I don't do make up, hair, heels etc. I'm also gobby, confident and assertive, I don't do emoting very well (aspie????) so what am I? well I am me. many children go through phases, thank heavens many children are allowed to explore their world in a non gender specific way. Why do we jump in and label them trying to medicalise something that may actually come to be a form of human development (environmental factors.....think fish and rivers. I remember as a kid wanting to be a boy because boys seemed to have all the toys I wanted to play with! whilst I was given dolls, thank heavens no one in the 70's thought to medicalise normal behaviour.

Adults.......well lets just say they are old enough to make up their own minds and deserve respect and support.

Leithlurker · 01/10/2012 20:52

Beach did you bother to read the whole thread? If you did you will see that LRD and others very slowly and very carefully tried to tease out what EBAL was on about. At each turn they were faced with obscure references, statements repeated time and again instead of informative or discursive points. This thread ata best has been antagonistic towards people with mental health issues, or downright dismissive of something you seem quite keen on, the real life lived experiences of people unhappy with the gender they were born in to.

kim147 · 01/10/2012 20:51

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Original poster
EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 01/10/2012 20:46

Nobody wants to oppress individual Trans people. You do know young children are nwo being diagnosed as Trans? At 5, 6, 7 years of age? Do you really think this is a compassionate approach?

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Original poster
EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 01/10/2012 20:45

Pan, there are an estimated 10% of Trans who regret transitioning. Usually after a number of years. But if you have had the full surgery and taken hormones, what do you do?

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MiniTheMinx · 01/10/2012 20:45

Is it a global view? I don't have a problem with transgender. I don't think I can really understand because I am not. In the same way that many feminist will not allow MtF into women only spaces, saying that born men can not really share their experiences. I can not share the experience of being trans and the oppression and vitriol they often face.

Original poster
EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 01/10/2012 20:43

Yes I have talked to women who thought about transitioning as well as those who have transitioned and then detransitioned.

Yes these women say at some point they felt like a man? But what does feeling like a man mean? All men feel different.

What they mean is that how they act, want to dress, behave, way they communicate is seen as "masculine". They are censored for that. I have seen women accused online of being men when they are not, because the way they communicate is seen as too "masculine".

These women interpret all this as - well I must really be a man. So they then define this as feeling like man inside.

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kim147 · 01/10/2012 20:40

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PanofOlympus · 01/10/2012 20:36

erm..no..the subject is self-improvement, not self-harm. Self-harm is all of the absolute shit and self-hatred that trans-sexuals have to endure. Pointing up again my friend who moved F-M and is now v v happy and successful (the Michael Buerke programme was called 'Choices' on R4) - if I know one, there there will be many. So he should endure a life of misery as a woman because....? it's not okay with a small section of feminists?

The radical feminists will baulk at the concept of a born-female rejecting the female state. That's their prob., but lets not pretend it's a global view, even amongst feminists.

Beachcomber · 01/10/2012 20:35

There used to be a poster on FWR who would sometimes talk about these issues. She thought long and hard about FtM gender reassignment surgery and said that feminist questioning of the gender binary (hierarchy) helped her to clarify her situation. Shame she isn't here anymore.

kim147 · 01/10/2012 20:32

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Beachcomber · 01/10/2012 20:28

And I don't think accusations of 'shit stirring' is helpful analysis or empathetic to be frank.

Original poster
EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 01/10/2012 20:27

Exactly beach

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Beachcomber · 01/10/2012 20:25

I don't doubt that EBAL will correct me if I'm wrong - but I think this thread is about the self-harm that women partake in when they mutilate their bodies in order to fit in with the patriarchal masculine/feminine paradigm.

The subject is self harm.

And the discussion is; should this self harm be institutionalised (in medicine) and normalized (by society) or should we question the enforced gender roles of patriarchal society and they harm they do to individuals.

Which is a basic founding question of feminist tenets.

Original poster
EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 01/10/2012 20:23

Young girls not allowed to act the way they want to because it is seen as "masculine" often develop gender dysphoria where they believe that they must really be the opposite sex. Of course they are distressed and upset. But we should be encouraginga situation where they can behave and dress in as "masculine" way as they wish in their own body.

And giving them psychological support to develop an acceptance and appreciation of the body they have.

This is a much more compassionate response than encouraging them to have unnecessary surgery and take hormones for life.

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kim147 · 01/10/2012 20:23

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