Violence Against Women

EBAL - I hope you are ok and not getting upset by the ganging up and personal attacks on this thread.

Perhaps if you want to support her Beachcomber you could provide some facts to back up some of the statements that she has made in the thread like that female to male people transition at a very young age. Asking somebody so opinionated for evidence isn't ganging up. All that she has said might be true but I just want to see the evidence. is that wrong?

Furthermore I am going to say what I think many other posters are thinking. That that EBAL is posting threads that highlight the difference between radical and liberal feminists to be deliberately provocative. Why would she do that? Who does it help? Not feminists that's for sure.

EBAL - I hope you are ok and not getting upset by the ganging up and personal attacks on this thread.

HoopdePoop would you care to quote where I have said something faith based or fundamentalist on this thread? (Something I said - not something Kritiq pretended I said)

I have said that I think feminism is and should be accessible to all women and that it isn't an academic subject. That women understand women's issues because they are our lived experience. I said it is great to read analysis but it isn't a requirement for being a feminist.

How is that faith based or fundamentalist?!

You see Kritiq, you making stuff up about me on this thread is causing mischief. Well done sister

You seem to think that there are massive and insurmountable difficulties in accepting that one could shift sex, EBAL - there is in reality very little difference between the two, and if someone would prefer to live as a woman/man, why would you not want to allow them to do so?

There have been so many points and arguments brought up to you on this thread, and you haven't addressed any of them - I'd be interested in your thoughts on people born with both male and female genitalia for a start - if the sexes are in your mind so unique, so different, and womanhood is a thing on a pedestal that you either have or you don't, how do you explain the proven possibility of genetic glitches causing 'in-between-ness'? Yes, most people are either definitely male or definitely female, but you absolutely cannot deny that there is a grey area with sex, just as there is with just about everything, like sexuality, morality and so on.

Your refusal to accept grey areas is why you appear fundamentalist and as KRITIQ so eloquently explains, appear so faith-based in the manner of Beachcomber .

I'm not asking for academic explanations or research-based stuff, just an acceptance of the way people actually are, not for you to deny people's existence because it doesn't suit your politics.

OK Kritiq so you can't quote the words and sentiments you attribute to me on this thread. And you can't quote them because I didn't say them. I would appreciate it if you would take care not to put me in the position again of having to pull you up on speaking for me and misrepresenting me - it is becoming irksome.

It is such a shame that this section has taken such a kicking and that personal attack, strawmen and going after the label/poster rather than exploring ideas seems to be the prevailing modus operandi.

*The blog I linked to in the OP gives a lot of information. This blog also gives a lot of information. Some posts are opinion pieces and some are talking about research.

gendertrender.wordpress.com/*

I've already searched that blog for valid research to back up things you have stated in this thread and can't find it. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough. Given that this is an issue that affects people deeply could you provide a link to this valid research which proves the points you have stated in this thread as fact. You could start with one that proves that female to male people transition at a very young age. I just don't want to believe that you are playing politics with peoples lives.

BTW I find people who say that Homosexuality is a disease and use dodgy "facts" to back it up offensive but then maybe that is just me.

*There are political theories that criticise the construction of lesbian identity, I agree with some of them.

Analysing an identity is perfectly acceptable. If we refrain from talking about identities because of feelings we wouldnt be able to talk about basic feminism For example, oh no, dont talk about how coerced sex is rape because it might hurt a woman's feelings who justifies coerced sex to herself as normal sex.

Feelings are not an excuse to shut down political debate. If you find a discussion too difficult, then leave the thread. *

Assuming that is aimed at me then I and others have asked for verifiable links that back up statements such as

"Research shows that after surgery self reported happiness goes up in the short term. But after 2 years self reported happiness and the level of suicides goes back to the level pre surgery"

Or that "Women usually transition very young"

If not the discussion is all based on smoke and mirrors.

Well Beach, I'm sorry to hear that you feel this way, but that's your call. I set out as plainly as I could that my post represented my observations - nothing more, nothing less. I said plainly that I wasn't claiming any special authority or status, either. As an observation, I didn't address you or any other person specifically. If you interpret that as a snub to you, that certainly wasn't the intention. If you believe it was a personal attack, that wasn't my intention, either. If you are very concerned about that, please contact site management and they will decide whether it was or not.

You said that "in every one of your posts that I read you take a pop at radical feminists," which probably means you are only reading very few of my posts here then! :) You say that you now tend to skim over most of my posts. That's cool. It's probably a good idea to skip over posts one feels will be upsetting for them. This is only a virtual space, no one is forced to be here and not worth getting upset over the content.

no, you have your beliefs and are immovable. you are dismissive of others' opinions, as evidenced on the patriarchy thread.

I dont wish to discuss with you anymore, and since you seem to live on FWR I shall be hiding these boards, which is a shame, because I find feminism fascinating, and have been growing and changing my views. but, i will not be steamrollered by you.

toodle-pip, have a nice life.

I read it differently, thats the problem with words on a screen, I suppose.

Well it's not really very helpful Cuervo, no.

Because I didn't say the following in that post;

It's interesting that Beachcomber says she doesn't understand the idea of feminism being a "journey," that it is something you either accept, chapter and verse, or you don't (and therefore have no right to call yourself a genuine feminist.)

I am simply saying that I think it is a shame if women pick up the idea that you need to have gone on a journey/read lots/discussed lots/etc in order to understand feminist perspective. I find the idea that women don't understand their own issues without having done some book reading or 'journeying', elitist, snobbish and excluding.

Whatever. I can't really be arsed to engage in this sort of crap. Ciao.