Do you think (your) sexuality changes how you relate to women-only spaces?

I don't know rhubs.

I think if you are in an intense single sex society emotional bonds easily spill over into physical as they do in untrammelled socieites.

Hully, do you think that depends on how flexible you already see your own sexuality? Do you think it is easier for women to become bisexual than it is for men?

For my part, I think I will always remain heterosexual. I do prefer quite masculine men (body wise) and women don't interest me in that way at all.

Grimbletart - well yes but don't you make observations when with a group of either gender? On an individual basis everyone is completely unique but if we didn't have a natural pack instinct then there would be no need for sociology.

On an individual level you can achieve a closeness with just about anyone, but as a group it's often much harder to become accepted and make your mark. Again, only my experience but I've found it much harder to become accepted by women-only groups than by men.

I wonder if any men have had that experience? I wonder if there are men who find it easier to get on with women? Perhaps having one person there of the opposite gender has a certain novelty factor? Adds a bit of spice to the group? Whereas someone of the same gender is just another face?

Grumpla I agree with your brilliant term of 'no sexist fuckwittery' my DH and I have the same agreement.

THERhubarb I think I have the same problem with other women 'clouding over' as you put it when I talk about Feminism. I try not to get too preachy about it, but when something angers me it's hard not to. I guess that's why I ended up here, in the hope I am with other like-minded women.

Tbh, it does depend on my mood and the sort of people I'm with. I can relax more around other women who are close friends, but women I don't really know I often find harder to approach than men sometimes.

I am married and straight and it's never really bothered me. I don't really give a shit if people see my views as a Feminist and my marital status being at odds with each other because I know, for me, they aren't.

God Rhubs that is awful.

I do agree that when in mixed company where the women talk about "female" stuff, I end up talking to the men about politics/economics etc becaus eotherwise I die from boredom.

LRD - I think my answer to your op is...not much! Not much connection between the two, for me anyway.

I do think if I was in an all female environment with no access to men, my sexuality would adapt, as does a lot of people's in single-sex boarding schools/prisons etc. We are fluid aren't we when it comes to our needs and the possibilities of meeting them.

I always find this question of preference a bit baffling TBH. I see people very much as individuals (or groups) whom I like and get on with or don't so much. Their sex is very much incidental.

Yes it does have a lot to do with social upbringing but still I find groups of women to be more intimidating than groups of men. I still struggle to find my place with groups of women and tbh, feminist debates like this one are not everyday occurences with women. Or men.

I think that this notion of women as airheads who only like to gossip is largely a societal pressure on women to conform and to know their place. In a working class town like Oldham and Preston, that pressure to conform is pretty strong.

It's usually men who break away from that because they have the opportunity to do so. Those opportunities are rarer for women.

Actually i think social life in general IS quite sexually segregated. I am apparently 'unusual' because i don't go out with 'the girls' in fact i have no 'the girls' and if we're in mixed company i often end up talking to the men due to my interests (cycling, sport etc)... i find that particularly as people live in nuclear families it is assumed that he goes out with the boys and she goes out with the girls or they go out together with other couples.
If you, like me, do a sport or hobby that is mainly followed by men then you find people look a bit at you and call you a ladette or assume you only hang out with men so you can flirt with them.

I have always been quite blind to gender, and in my teens was the only girl in my physics class and one of few on my physics degree so ended up relating to men as individuals rather than a group becuase i was in an all male environment and had to find friends within that environment. Naturally the men i choose to be friends with are not sexist twats .

Where i live now most of the women are er shall we say traditional? So I only have one and a half friends, but I still see all my other lovely friends who keep me going...

Yes, you do need to hang out with intelligent like-minded women of course...

and men.

That's a socisal rather than gender thing I think.

Thanks Lambethlil.

It does happen and it's depressing when it does. But my views on women have nothing in common with my experiences. I see it more as the fault of society and the class division. The North West is generally quite behind in feminism because of the strong traditional roles that still exist there.

Mmm that's true LRD. It's much more common for men to have a hobby that takes them away to an adult, and usually same-sex space, than it is for women, in my experience.

Hi - yes again that's what my experience was. When I had kids, the women groups in parent and toddlers and NCT groups. I thought they would be more forward thinking but they weren't.

If anything those experiences showed me just how little feminism had touched the everyday lives of women who still did the primary childcare, who gave up their careers, who saw themselves as housewifes, who placed themselves below their husbands. I realised that was not the way it was meant to be.

Yet some women are loathe to give up their positions as the downtrodden wives.

Rhubarb I know where you're coming from.
I am now on an all women team at work. All our clients are women and most of the other professionals we deal with are too.
Surprisingly much of the non work chatter is depressingly centered around traditional women's issues of food/ family.
In this case I think it's because the organisation I work for is Christian, and the 'equal but different' ethos excuses explains a lot of it.
I've also worked in publishing, same chatter rather than engaged debate teaching, not the same- wonderfully challenging constantly engaged politically. We were so evolved it was awesome- kids still got a crap education.

LRD, I did say that in my younger years, in work situations and in social situations I had tried to fit in with groups of women but as Hully said, the convos were very girly and mostly about shoes and relationships and diets. If I tried to talk about feminism they would cloud over and take a step back. I felt isolated and lonely and didn't have a clue where I fitted in.

At the same time I found men very threatening, esp where I lived (Oldham) as men seemed only to want to get you drunk and shag you.

I did admit that those experiences were very stereotypical but that is where I lived at the time.

I do have close female friends now but I have more male friends than female and of my male friends, they are all quite feminist in themselves and certainly don't debate with a view to seeing men as the new 'victims' as Id implied. They have good strong debates about the role of women in different cultures and how equality is still a distant dream for many of them.

Although, thinking about it, my friend had a women only party the other week, where I had a fantastic time.
It was a really nice atmosphere. I didn't find that intimidating, in the way I do the other examples I gave (NCT etc.).

Thanks Hully, that is exactly what I was saying about the girly things, exactly what I have experienced but in my effort to tread carefully so as not to offend, I seem to have done just that.

How come what you said about girly convos is ok but when I said that I had experienced that, it's not?

Ah well, better not get myself a complex.

No LRD, I would never ever say that and I thought my posts made it clear that I was talking about women in real life, those I speak to in a work and social context.

I am not a poster who goes around trolling on feminist threads or who posts in here very often at all. I have opinions and experiences that are just as valid. If I cannot say them without you seeing me as someone out to 'get' feminists then I might as well stay quiet. You cannot start an attack because other feminist threads which I have not been a part of have been attacked themselves.

Like I said, I need to hide the thread and fwiw my posts were not directed at you LRD, there are two posters who have judged me and assumed to know what my views are whilst making some cracking "views" themselves which are presumably not up for debate. That's rather unfair do you not think?

Oh, and most of my closest friends are lesbians. I don't know if that means anything tho!

I'm not good at "groups of women" personally. I do have women friends who I love dearly, and my best friends are all women.
But, I dread the whole- NCT group, school pick-up in the playground, all women office- type of environment.

Hmm. Not exactly sure why.

Nor am I sure if that's at all relevant to this discussion, because I have no idea what it would have to do with my sexuality. I'm just waffling, ha!

Oh I'm sorry, I missed the sexuality thing too...bit rubbish today

I don't know about that. I seem to be hetero sexually, but women for everything else.

I'll carry on then...

I find with women groups, the conversation flows more and is faster and funnier and not competitive in the way it can be with men.

I HATE stupid hen things and so-called "girly" stuff with a vengeance tho.

I am not sure. I do enjoy visiting lesbian bars with my friends because I feel very safe there. I'm not a lesbian but when I visit these hang-outs, I feel as though it doesn't matter at all.