Do you think (your) sexuality changes how you relate to women-only spaces?

Hully, some women are not encouraged to 'think', that is not their place. Was it Armstrong and Miller who did the sketch about a woman who voices an opinion at the dinner table only to ruin the entire night?

maybenow I understand what you are saying.

I mean, it seems odd to have sex with anyone of either gender that you aren't consumed with lust for.

What's the point?

I could make myself have sex with a man I didn't fancy (unless he was gross) so I suppose I could with a woman for political reasons - but it seems a really odd thing to do.

Women that speak of those things are unintellectual in the main, even if professionals.

Loads of people, male and female, choose not to think...

Gosh, that sounds like I have terrible body issues, I don't really... but I know that my DH loves my boobs even if they're not the pertest boobs in the world, and he loves my curves even though i'd rather have a fitter, firmer more athletic build.... If my partner had her own better curves and boobs I'm not sure how my body could please her. (though obviously she could love me, but that's not the same as fancying).

Kash and Hi, just me then!

It's hard for me, as Mali said, to imagine myself with anyone other than dh and I've never had any leanings towards women as sexual partners. I'm more than happy to have physical intimacy without sex and used to sleep with my male friends quite happily without every wanting more. I can't speak for them obviously!

Cake - it's not a comparison. It's an observation. It's not my view, it's my experience. It's right to question this surely? We can't pretend that these groups of women don't exist because they do. We can look at why some groups of women talk only of diets and relationships and how society and misogyny might have influenced that, especially in very traditional working class areas. It does no good to pretend that this never happens or that anyone who has experienced this is therefore a closet misogynist herself who holds anti-feminist views.

I was brought up never to question my place in society. My role was to marry then have kids and give up the little job I had, as generations of women before me had done.

Luckily back there there were free grants that enabled me to go to college and then onto University. I fear more now for generations of girls who have these female roles thrust upon them and have no chance of escaping that environment because all the escape routes have been closed off by the government.

I know quite a few lesbians through sports clubs I am in (I wonder why sports clubs seem to have more 'out' lesbians than proportionally in the general population - but that's another thread!)

But I have never fancied a woman and I can't imagine how homosexuals of either sex can seperate how they relate to their own body from how they relate to the bodies they find attractive. If I find a female body attractive then it's because i want to emulate it, if I find a male body attractive then I can't emulate it so I 'fancy' it/him instead.

I would be worried that if I had a girlfriend then (particularly in the early 'lust' days) either she'd have a gorgeous body and I'd feel terrible next to her and wouldn't measure up or she'd not have a gorgeous body so I wouldn't fancy her physically. I guess it doesn't help that all the lesbians I know personally are super-fit and sporty and I feel a bit of a booby-curvy blob next to them and doubt any of them would ever fancy me.

I didn't read the other thread (not for any reason) so I'm not interested in the who said what said.

This thread is interesting in its own right and that's all that matters.

I definitely couldn't do political lesbianism, am interested to know how one manufactures desire from a political view?

Oh c'mon complexity that's scarcely fair.

Have to say, it does rather vex me how often these threads talk about women in 'stupid shoes & skincare bullshit' vs feminism terms.

sigh.

Good discussion. I definitely know men who are more comfortable in groups of women, as was asked upthread. I am at work now but can hopefully post later.

Hmmm, this is a good (if slightly opaque!) question LRD!

I've always been in hetero relationships but I could imagine myself (if I wasn't now married) in a lesbian sexual relationship quite easily although weirdly, not a proper 'emotional/love' relationship, iykwim? Dunno why. I guess I could be wrong about that.

But like others have said, my feminism must have influenced me in choosing non-fuckwit men to have relationships with.

Oh and I was raised single-handedly by my feminist father (who said he preferred the company of woman "so much more interesting") so maybe that's why I don't have any issue with 'sleeping with the enemy' given I instinctively don't see men as the enemy of feminism (disclaimer: not that anyone here is saying they are)

THERhubarb I make a distinction between 'love making' (I hate the term, but it serves a purpose) and 'a shag'.

Shagging for me is all about lust and attraction, and nothing to do with emotional connection.

Love making would be with a partner and all about emotional connection.

As a woman, I crave both, and luckily for me, my DH is able to oblige.

I tend to crave them at different times, and interestingly it's often in line with my cycle.

As for emotional debate, I enjoy them, although I find sometimes some groups of women can be a bit full-on and I have to take a step back.

I don't seem to fit anywhere really, in the past I've mainly worked with women, in a primary school for 10 years then a SS daycare centre for adults with learning disabilities then the local Council, I was always very much the "odd one out", I hate Soaps and reality TV and they were pretty much the only topics of conversation other than family, none of them were remotely interested in what I consider interesting.
Now I find myself in a very male dominated workplace and I hate it, the B2B sales team especially are misogynistic dinosaurs, despite being fairly young men , and would treat me with absolute disdain if I tried to join a conversation about cars or computers. Interestingly, the very young men in the other offices treat me with respect and we have good conversations, I'm probably the same age as their mums.

I think I have blinkers on when it comes to sexuality, I have zero interest in women or other men , I genuinely wouldn't know if someone was flirting with me and I've never been attracted to another man in over 30 years, I think I give off serious "keep away" vibes , most people probably think I'm an absolute misery guts , I find it difficult to click with anyone and I can't remember the last time I had an actual RL friend. I don't know how I would describe my sexuality tbh, definitely heterosexual, but much more than just that, I've only ever been attracted to my husband and can't imagine ever having sex with anyone else which seems unusual by MN standards.

In the past I've definitely valued female only spaces, I was a military wife for the first half of my marriage so the company of other wives was vital for suport when living overseas with young babies/pre schoolers but even then I didn't really fit in, I'm a very guarded, private person.
I suppose I'm pretty much a loner, as long as I've got DH and DD, I'm happy.
The thing is though, I'm pleased that DD is everything I'm not, she's outgoing, a natural born leader, very sociable, always at the centre of things, she has lots of good friends, male and female, we've always encouraged her to "take part" as it were, she has my bossy, organisational skills and DH's social skills (thank goodness).

I toooootally disagree with the stuff you're saying about sex Rhubarb.

I don't think men are takers and women givers. And I believe men and women both need intimacy and closeness and, you know, the, er, hot physical action, equally.

Hully, I think women tend to be more emotional when it comes to sex. We are givers, not takers and we bond through sex, sharing the experience. Men tend to be more selfish. I realise I am speaking in very general terms here, but I truly do believe that women are more capable than men in having platonic relationships because it's more the physical intimacy that is craved rather penetrative sex.

I suspect that if you took away the hugs and kisses and just left the sex, women would find that much harder to bear than men, who would probably be quite made up!

Beamur, I have also had lovely sisterly conversations but they have tended to be quite emotional and perhaps it is these emotions that I find hard to deal with? I would much rather have an unemotional conversation/debate. I don't like sharing my emotions in a group situation.

It's definitely women you turn to when you do need emotional support though isn't it? Women tend to 'get' emotional issues much easier than men who prefer to seek the logical high ground.

I find myself agreeing with Rhubarb - I find groups of women quite intimidating, but do have some lovely female friends. I think my own experiences are very mixed, I work in a fairly male dominated environment and have come across some 'old fashioned' men, but increasingly I find men of my own generation and younger don't hold those kinds of attitudes.

Generally I find men easy to chat with and spend time with - but I suspect I filter out those with different values - I think most of my close male friends are feminist sympathisers.
In terms of sexuality, I am heterosexual and thinking about this in terms of this thread, whilst I don't always welcome male attention, I do know how to deal with it - wanted or unwanted, whereas, I've never been approached by a woman (I suspect I don't give off the right signals!) and whilst I do have some gay friends, I suspect I have more than I know...I don't think I'm very intuitive about other peoples preferences.

I would consider myself a feminist, but I'm also interested in things like cooking, clothes and make up.
I was at a party not so long ago, mostly other parents from DD's school and ended up having a very 'sisterly' and encouraging discussion about feminism, but we could have equally been chatting about gardening.

REALLY?

Blimey, I dunno.

Lust figures pretty high with the women I know...

(most men would have issues sharing with another man I mean, not another woman!)

Ah but emotional bonds and physical intimacy can mean different things. For some it's just the closeness of another human body - the sex is irrelevant. I suspect for women especially, sex has far less to do with lust by comparison to men. I think women find it far easier to sleep with someone completely platonically, just relishing the closeness more than anything. Men can't seem to be able to do that.

It's like sharing a double bed. Most women don't find it a problem to share that space with another woman whereas most men would have issues with that.