Where did all the Feminists go?

Was that to me?

It's hardly shit-stirring to ask someone what they meant by such a provocative yet mysterious post...

Eats, I don't understand your last post. Are you saying that you have to know you're a feminist to be a feminist ?

MN troll hunter/bully crowd

Who ARE these people?

I love a bit of revisionism of a rainy sunday.

beach, MNHQ already deleted that lie once.

So, eats, what you are saying is that unless you subscribe to one school of thought, you are not a feminist? Spiffing

Aaaaaand, here we go again.

Feminism is a political theory - whatever branch of feminism you subscribe to. I think the idea that we encourage anyone who displays any basic feminist ideas to identify as a feminist, means that most women do not understand what feminism is and dont hear feminist ideas beyond the most anodyne ones.

Blistory, exactly.

No not dumb it down in that way LRD. Radical feminist ideas can be explained very simply. I meant dumbing it down in terms of pretending it is something it is not - so watering down is perhaps more appropriate phrase

blistory - absolutely. Yes.

eats - because it's not binary, I think. There aren't 'feminists' and 'everyone else from MRAs to not-a-feminist-but types' ... or at least, there's not much point looking at people in that sort of binary way.

Don't want to dumb it down but want to find a way to post without getting others backs up to the extent that anything I say is ignored because all they hear is a radfem spouting at them and focus on that. Never mind that I'm not a radfem

Why would they not be one?

I have to say, I hate the language of 'dumbing down'. I don't think you should have to 'dumb down' in order to make something accessible and intelligible to someone else. If you do have to, the fault is with you as a teacher/communicator, not with them for asking you to explain more simply. IMO.

Radical feminism is, I think, extremely simple. We can all disagree about the details of how it works in real life, and how good we are at it and how much we want it to produce the same results. But the basic ideology is very, very simple and doesn't need dumbing down.

Why would you want someone to identify as a feminist who is not one?

Eats, and that's the type of statement that alienates people and dissuades them from identifying themselves as feminists. I don't want to put women and girls first. I want to put the person who needs most help and support first. That doesn't make me any less of a feminist.

"What would help would be trying to overcome the stereotypes about all of us being a bunch of extreme, man hating, woman oppressing harpies.."

But putting woman and girls first and wanting to overthrow the patriarch does make many feminists extreme in many women and men's eyes. We shouldnt try and dumb it down and soften what we believe to appeal to others.

See, that's why we need Radfems on MN who can explain these things without telling me that my thinking is wrong. Or patronisinf me. Thanks, SGM and Frothy

Food for thought.

Exactly, EBAL.

Garlic, indeed. I may have sat there thinking "Yay! You ARE a feminist AFTER ALL!" at the time. Number of times I've heard that, I've considered making "Congratulations! You're A Feminist" stickers...

xpost a zillion.

bloody pills.

In general I think the main reason why rad feminism/ fem in general is so unpalatable for many is that it appears to generalise about men and this is probably down to a lack of word in the English language for "some men, not all men, maybe not even the majority of men but a sufficiently higher number of men than women in a comparable situation for it to be considered a social pattern"! IYSWIM.

People look at their everyday lives and see (mostly I hope) that the individual men in their lives aren't rabid perps of the patriarchy and so disassociate with the generalities of feminist analysis. But then Fm isnt about individuals but more about recognising patterns. It's not about blaming individuals but more about analysing and critiquing a system that favours some over others.

That probably doesn't make any sense whatsoever but I was just trying to work out why people out in the wider forum would want to sideline FWR and not see it as relevant to their everyday lives.

but, isnt it about methods rather than the end result?

I am raising my only child as a feminist. to view women as his intellectual and social equals. one day he may marry and have children, and hopefully raise his children the same way. I think that progress can be made one person at a time.