Make love not porn

Well said MySpanielHell yy

When I said the human race had propagated itself without graphic images, I am aware of ancient vases depicting orgies etc..

I'm re-reading Firestone at the moment, I find much to disagree with but I'm reading about childhood at the moment. Not so long ago in human history children would have been married off quite young, they would have lived perhaps in large extended families (not just in a small nuclear family) they would have grown up knowing far more about sex than my 11 year old. Childhood has extended beyond what the natural order dictated to allow for many more years of enforced subordination to men.

The problem with porn is that it isn't really representing propagation but instead something else, hatred usually directed at women. Why do men come over women's faces? Is it because women like it or even because men like to see jizz???? no I think it's more complex than that. I am inclined to think that Millet was correct when she spoke about Mailer's Rojack in American Dream, Rojack didn't want to be imprisoned, lost or waste his precious seed on a women so unworthy of it. How telling it is that men prefer to ejaculate any and everywhere other than in a women, it epitomises how men view women. If women were in the past viewed with awe because she created new life, then men have for ever after tried to wrestle that control away, failing, their envy turns to spite. Most of the sex in pornography is made and viewed in that light.

I'd say porn is visual images of real people having sex. If it is a story, a drawing, a song or an animation then it is erotica.

There is some blurring when actors pretend to have sex on some tv shows, like some of the stuff HBO has produced. Because they're not really having sex but they're real people - that would be a blurring as some people would consider it soft porn but others wouldn't because of the context.

It's my own understanding, chuck. All of it. I am no expert in these things, but I do have strong opinions on the matter.

That's the best I can offer you

Does it matter what I think ?

Porn-live sex acts

Erotica-written, drawn, painted or photographed

I think AF sees the first as porn. Erotica is in some way imagined. (drawn, written etc)

Apologies if I have misinterpreted.

is this what Cindy is saying ? She is talking daft.

you think it is "different" to porn, in that it no longer fulfils the broad definition ?

I said upthread it may be "better" porn (wrt to how it objectifies women) but it is still porn.

one is real people performing sex acts on camera

the other is not

is this a difficult concept ?

hully I do get where you're coming from, and why.

But given we know that the situation you describe - lots of young men watching porn; not much communication - needs to change, I think that's the only place to start from.

I do think we can. I'm reading at the moment about changing attitudes to DV, and how even amongst those people who're opposed to DV in theory, there's a long history of people disagreeing about what is practical to oppose and what is a natural evil, or ineradicable. I got into it because a friend of mine has surviving letters from her great-gran to her grandmother advising the grandmother to tell her husband to shout at her if he needs to get his temper out, but not hit her, as he 'naturally' needs some recourse for his anger. Today we'd be saying, get out, you don't have to put up with any of this.

So I would hope maybe porn culture could go the same way (not saying DV is more successfully eradicated than porn, just comparing stages of change in attitudes).

if that is what you are asking

I don't think porn and erotica are the same thing.

eh ?

Hully do you mean writings about sex?

I know hully, just thinking aloud what would be ideal

I don't think more porn is ideal, and never will