What is the patriarchy?

Xenia I said "do that with" not "do that to"

My point was it was my decision as you seemed to be saying that a protective man was the one making the decision. Will you be walking barebreasted down the Mall? Let me know and I'll come and meet you.

And don't forget that Kate operates in society just like the rest of us. She may well believe that there is nothing wrong with baring her baps (and indeed there isn't) but she has, like the rest of us, been conditioned to be embarrassed by it.

I have the right though to point out the error of people's ways in a country with free speech. There is a very good article by the owner of the Standard in last night's paper about the issue and it is an issue which troubles me on mumsnet too and in the press in general . He says we may get too used to having common views. I fear that too. I want to live in an England where people can have very different views but live in harmony , not be stoned because they are pro or anti porn or pro or anti hunting etc etc.

You can end up with it becoming dangerous to express a view. We should all be allowed to put up films however silly on youtube without risking being bombed.

The Doctrine - why is it doing something to your body to choose to show it? Breasts are always a fascinating feminist issue because clearly they are treated as more sexually provoking than are male chests in most cultures. The fact the Duchess was presented with bare breasted women in a culture without our stupid hangups over nudity was such fun.

What we need is a duchess with such strong views she is prepared to meet Solomon islands in an outfit which shows her own breasts. That really would have been some progress.

Xenia - "The fact the showing of a woman's breasts is something to be stopped by a protective man of his housewife is not particularly feminist. We would rather the Duchess was joining bare breasted marches on the right to show your breasts down the Mall surely.... "

You can want all you want, but it is Kate's life and Kate's choice and you do not have the right to take that away from her.

Rosa, this is not a feminist forum, it's a forum to discuss feminism. Can I make that into a TSSDNCOP style acronym..?
TINFFIAFTDF.

Exotic you've reminded me - has anyone read The Kingmaker's Daughter yet? My mum reads loads of Philippa Gregory books and I've resisted so far but I do have a soft spot for Anne Neville.

Hi Xenia - I've got a meeting near the Mall this afternoon, could squeeze in a topless march around 3.30 if you can join me.

Oh wait, hang on - I decide not to do that with my body.

The fact the showing of a woman's breasts is something to be stopped by a protective man of his housewife is not particularly feminist. We would rather the Duchess was joining bare breasted marches on the right to show your breasts down the Mall surely.... Is she saying there is something wrong with breasts?

It obviously doesn't exclude them reading historical romances.

Yes, sadly Rosa, you did.

Did I really just read the words "set her cap at him" on a feminist forum?

Err they both spent time in Chile with a major gap year organisation but at different times. Dont understand how that is stalking.

In the other, Kate's yacht boss describes her as reserved but also says she told everyone she'd set her sights on William. If serious, seems contradictory.
As an asideI bet half the female students that year at St A made that joke to their mates abyway. Did you see that Derren Brown programme about a horse betting system? The system was - film all the participants equally but only show the one that won all 5 bets.

Xenia it was difficult for her to work given scrutiny and security.

I can't see any reason for the outdated male succession to continue.

I think she is fairly major! They are hardly a normal couple - I expect they will spend a lot of time with the DCs if not on duty. No you can't work part time in RAF (wondering quite how you manage that fom Afganistan he isn't exactly a normal member of RAF though and has other state duties.

Subsidiary minor role, though. She's only a supporting spouse. I prefer the examples of Cherie Booth and Mrs Cameron to Gordon Brown's wife and Obama's. Even better of course are Angela Merkel and her ilk. Anyway I wonder if Cameron can get permission from all the colonies to agree that a first born daughter would inherit the throne. That would be an improvement in feminist terms although why the oldest has priority over the youngest in anything even if they are not best for that role I am not sure. It is ageist really.

And she is now set to work for the rest of her life. She is one person who will have to have childcare and she will have to put work first.

I am sure most people would be happier with her if she had taken up some kind of career like the rest of her family. She is a really bad example to British girls sadly - housewife extraordinaire, Stepford Wife incarnate and yet her mother has done so very well in business and her mother in law has ruled this land so well for 60 years. The Thatcher/ QEII combination as so wonderful in its day.

Sounds more like a calculating social climber to me.

My sympathy for her grows exponentially.

TDoS yes, bit of a stalker see some scuttlebutt

So William and Catherine both participated in Raleigh International expeditions in Chile. William's was from October to December 2000, while Catherine's was from January to March 2001.

CATHERINE Middleton had set her sights on snaring Prince William even before she met him at university, according to a South African who knew her during her gap year

Not too serious, which is why she's in air quotes "stalker"

OMC I am also concerned about her weight as I think she has lost weight and I am not sure that she is at a healthy weight. Again if I was subject to her level of scrutiny I would feel under a lot of pressure also.

So you and your DW think of her as a stalker?

summerflower not terribly relevant to anything, perhaps. Just concerns me that we may see another generation of women thinking it's necessary to look stick thin so they can look attractive.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Tue 18-Sep-12 12:58:22
Sorry "round here" is chez OMC. Actually DW's name for her.

Still thinks she looks desperately thin, mind

Patriarchy for me is the default setting.

Feminism challenges the deafult setting and asks that we at least look at things through the eyes of being a woman.