Male nannies/childminders

Yes, OneMoreChap - that's how my parents' managed, too. In fairness to them, they had not really any idea of people molesting children, being good, trusting people who loved children they couldn't imagine it happening. I really can - vividly - and so I am more cautious. Much more cautious.

Most of the teens we know who babysit have infant/toddler CPR qualifications, and some other babysittingy crb-like thing from running summer camps for younger children or being in scouts etc. It seems to come as 'standard' in this part of north America, so it's not odd to look around for a bit more. Plus, of course, I use a daycare and a lot of the daycare workers live locally and are willing to babysit on an evening now and then, for adequate compensation. I imagine I could find cheaper, but then, what price peace of mind?

I think the big overarching point I'm trying to make on this thread is: I don't think that men who want to work with children, who are willing to be subject to general social distrust and scrutiny, then to train, pass rigorous checks, be continuously monitored, etc are any more of a threat to my children then the women who follow the same procedures (minus the social distrust). I do think that unqualified 'help' can be a real danger, as that tends to be how predators slip through the cracks. I think I am probably hyper-aware of 'pedo danger' as a survivor of child sexual assault, but that doesn't mean I stop my children being cared for by young men. It means I stop my children being cared for by people whom I have not thoroughly, painstakingly researched.

I know statistically men are more likely to sexually assault children than women are, and I don't think we should pretend that isn't true. I don't think 'shh don't say that, what about the poor men!' is a good response to that fact. But the answer, to my mind, is to be as careful as you possibly can about who takes care of your children; not to immediately assign all women to the category 'safe' and all men to the category 'dangerous.'

Finally, I'll say that tossing around accusations of 'genderphobia' is unhelpful. Women and children who have been raped and/or abused by predatory men have every reason to be phobic - that is, to fear them, in the abstract at least, if not in person. It's not fair to the individual men who are perfectly unthreatening, but it is an appropriate response to the levels of violence and harassment and abuse that women and children face at the hands of men. Men who don't like that fact do, I'm afraid, have to lump it. Good men who observe that fact tend to respond that it is a problem with our patriarchal society and how that damages women and children, not something that people should just shut up about because it makes them feel sad.

We just used to get friends' kids from church; or friends. None of them had any of the stuff you have in place for all yours. [Mind you it was a long time ago].

I'm glad you now understand what I've been saying.

And it's never been a problem, oddly enough. Must just be lucky where I live.

blackcurrants Yep, sorry, I had missed what you were saying.

I saw:
I DO let a male teenager babysit my toddler,... because I know this particular individual better than my parents knew my male babysitter, have known him for years, and because I have other precautions in place which my own parents neglected ...I do not think our babysitter's gender makes him a threat because I know him.

I didn't realise:
I use male babysitters ... because these individuals are carefully referenced, background-checked, and continuously monitored. - as any and all carers (including female carers) of my children are and always will be.

When I say "I know him" I mean I know his background, security history, training,... interview the manager, look into their training certs and when they expire

I withdraw unreservedly, but damn, you must find it hard to get babysitters.

OneMoreChap

I think your scrutiny of my views perhaps requires more scrutiny, as you've missed what I'm saying. :)

But perhaps I am not being clear, so let me rephrase:

I use male babysitters and would be happy for DS to have male daycare carers because these individuals are carefully referenced, background-checked, and continuously monitored. - as any and all carers (including female carers) of my children are and always will be.

When I say "I know him" I mean I know his background, security history, training, etc. As I do all of DS's daycare workers. I actually read the fine print, interview the manager, look into their training certs and when they expire, or whatever. That's what "I know him" means in the context of the past you're quoting. Not just, y'know, he's a friend of my Auntie Kevin, so he's fine.

Basically, blackcurrants I apologise if you think I'm antagonistic to you. I do not intend to be.

Your views, however, are fair game for scrutiny.
Pretending I think it's all right to [paraphrase] say "W-e-l-l, yes; I suppose male childminders or teachers are all very well, but I wouldn't have one looking after my kid, knowhaitmean?" would be wrong.

It needlessly stirs up fears about paedophiles, men, and keeps men out of the professions.

You particularly know that assaults are more likely from those known than strangers, which is why I thought your [paraphrase] "Well, I know he's a man, but I know him so that's OK" was rather... odd.

LurkingAndLearningLovesOrange Wed 12-Sep-12 09:30:09
That McCann comment was a really low blow
Wasn't intended to be, so again, I apologise. It's about risk assessment - I know that in FWR it's a dirty word, but I never, ever left my young children unattended, and I remain astonished that they did so. If that had been "Sharon, off the estate", they would have been even more hugely reviled.

My risk assessment in that case would have been, better a babysitter than leaving them alone. Even a male babysitter.

I have no idea why you are being so antagonistic towards me, OneMoreChap, when we essentially agree on what is being discussed. But since it appears to be pleasing you to quote me out of context and then insinuate that I am a terrible parent, here is the paragraph from which you are quoting the last sentence:

I don't let any tom, dick or harry look after my children. I DO let a male teenager babysit my toddler, despite having been sexually abused by a male babysitter when I was a child, because I know this particular individual better than my parents knew my male babysitter, have known him for years, and because I have other precautions in place which my own parents neglected (including teaching my children that their bodies are theirs, and who can touch them, etc). I do not think our babysitter's gender makes him a threat because I know him.

I think you'll agree that the last sentence, coming at the end of that paragraph, has a rather different valence than just "I know him, it's fine, la la la laaa."

I am saying that I do/will use male caregivers for my child who are CRB checked, monitored, and so on, and I do not think there is something inherently suspicious about a male who wants to work with children (as I also mentioned upthread, my husband works with children.)

You are saying If you don't want a male nursery nurse, or a primary teacher "because of my children", I presume you'd be happy if I don't want "your children" to mix with mine because of their gender-phobic attitudes? ... actually I have no idea what you are saying to me here. Because I'm not saying the things you seem to think I'm saying, so it just doesn't make sense.

That McCann comment was a really low blow.

blackcurrants what you said was
I do not think our babysitter's gender makes him a threat because I know him.

Oh well, as you know him that's all right then.

Unless you specify that you "have other precautions" people might assume that you assess risks and make judgments, like all parents do. For example, I wouldn't have left 3 children alone in a house, while I went for a meal with friends. I'd probably rather have left a teenage boy in charge. I imagine the McCann's think that.

If you don't want a male nursery nurse, or a primary teacher "because of my children", I presume you'd be happy if I don't want "your children" to mix with mine because of their gender-phobic attitudes?

OneMoreChap you posted Of course, most abuse is from someone known, not "strangers". As if you thought that might be news to me. I am well aware of that. As I mentioned upthread, I was molested as a child by someone well known to me.

As a result, as I also mentioned upthread, I therefore have other precautions in place to protect my child's safety.

Believe me, I understand the fear.

We need to have faith as a society that not every single person is a criminal.

We also need to have real prison time for rape.

Haven't read any of the comments - page 12! - but just want to say that some of my gay friends have been the best!! babysitters

me being away a week!<

AND he was a teenager,

Me LP

God bless them forever!! for helping me keep my sanity ;-)

It was nuts. I'd been off MN for a while (stuck in hospital :() and came back to absolute carnage.

Heh heh.

I was waiting for a rad v lib comment.

Had no idea the outcome had been human rights, though. 'twas all so shoddy and divisive, this is the first time I've been back, I think. Certainly haven't been loitering.

A few people asked for an Equalist board back when the massive FWR bust up happened, and got human rights instead

Maybe we could have an equalist board?

The new movement starts on Mumsnet!

blackcurrants Tue 11-Sep-12 21:31:01
I do not think our babysitter's gender makes him a threat because I know him.

Of course, most abuse is from someone known, not "strangers".

But the majority isn't always the rule is it.

Exactly OneMoreChap you have hit the nail on the head.

The majority of rapists and childmolestors are male
This WILL influence people's views.

Men aren't Paedophiles.

paedophiles are paedophiles.

cf. men aren't rapists; rapists are rapists

The majority of the attitudes on this thread is that men should be nannies and sit next to lone children on flights and that those who have a problem with that because of pedophiles are fearmongers.

Well, Pretzel, that's not my view.

I advise my child(ren) to avoid strangers and to know their own boundaries and to loudly protest and report inappropriate contact. I think men should be nannies to those families who want them - or daycare workers, or reception teachers - and like all other professionals in that role they should be well trained, CRB checked, well referenced, well monitored ...

I don't let any tom, dick or harry look after my children. I DO let a male teenager babysit my toddler, despite having been sexually abused by a male babysitter when I was a child, because I know this particular individual better than my parents knew my male babysitter, have known him for years, and because I have other precautions in place which my own parents neglected (including teaching my children that their bodies are theirs, and who can touch them, etc). I do not think our babysitter's gender makes him a threat because I know him.

FWIW I do think that statistically, children are more likely to be sexually abused by males than females, and I do think I would advise my children to seek out parents-with-children when lost, beware strange men, etc. I don't think that's rampantly absurd.

The difference between a carefully sourced man employed in a caring role, and a random strange male - or female! - sitting next to an unaccompanied minor on a plane, is enormous.

FoodUnit Sun 09-Sep-12 11:58:09
And the reason touching children is now taboo is not because of 'peedo hysteria' but because of very real acts of abuse overwhelmingly perpetrated by males. So the perpetrators deserve the blame for these measure, not those who want to prevent them from perpetrating.

Let me fix that for you:So the perpetrators deserve the blame for these measure, not the innocent parties that the ignorant are attempting to blame

There's a male nursery nurse at DD's nursery. I didn't think anything of it when he was introduced to me; we then went round the corner and the manager whispered to me that 'I know it seems odd having a man here but it IS good for the children to have a male role model and he's really very good...' I must have looked a bit as she kept on going on about it until I said 'I don't mind either way, honestly!' I guess they have lots of people being concerned about having a man working there, which I find rather sad.