For all those who have wondered why mansplaining is even a thing

Cantthink....I have never told AA. He is incapable due to gender. I have heard my exp make excuses for being incompetent 'because I'm a man' - which is just sexist

Also, FoodUnit (I'm going in a minute, honest...)
knowing you'll be stigmatised - but in reality, when we're assertive we get things done, solve things, move things on. That might result in us being stigmatised by some fruitcake(s) somewhere, and sometimes their fear or anger is presented in horrible 'in your face'-type ways. But generally assertiveness increases the chaces of success, which increases the chances of being congratulated, rewarded, etc.
So it creates its own 'supportive environment', no?

Have just skim-read thread, but someone in my extended family does this par excellence! He started a conversation the other day about an event I'd been to recently, then proceeded to tell me all about it (he's never been to it), didn't ask a single substantive question, and described it in terms that were way off-beam. What can you say, other than, 'no, you're wrong'?

FoodUnit - I think the best way to create that environment is to be assertive. So that that becomes a norm rather than an exception, or something women feel they have to 'think twice' about.
I don't think there's a better alternative. Can you suggest one?

cantthinkofadadsname Yes agreed I do explain things to DH and he does bristle with annoyance before I've even really started, saying "Yes I DO know", and then he does loads of things that shows he doesn't actually know, he just hates being explained to, and annoyingly this creates more work for me grrrr!

(I'd give you examples but I'd just p*ss myself off too much so I'll leave it there)

mango "The stigma 'attached' to assertive women (i.e. attached to the befuddled little brains of 'people' who are afraid of/annoyed by assertive women) would be greatly lessened if more women could shamelessly bring themselves to be more assertive. Which means not worrying about being seen as a 'bitch' (unless, of course, you are in fact being a bitch but want to be in denial about it)."

It is a bit unfair to but the onus of this entirely on women. A supportive environment and culture would make it easier to be 'shamelessly assertive', and there's nothing supportive about knowing you'll be stigmatised rather than praised for something.

lurking "I'm happy to be called a bitch if it means my daughters or granddaughters don't have to live through this Hell I do."

I agree with you, but I would like to create an environment where my daughters or granddaughters don't get called bitch for being shamelessly assertive.

Interesting thread.

I was trying to think of an opposite to mansplaining. As a dad, I have had my now ExP explain to me about baby care, child care, how to do the washing, put clothes out etc in a very patroninsing way when I know perfectly well what to do - but she thought I couldn't possibly know because "I am a man". It is annoying when people try to explain things to you and tell you how to do stuff when they assume you don't know because of your status.

I'm sure none of the feminists on here do that to their OH, do they :)

MooncupGoddess "Oh I would LOVE a mansplaining campaign. Maybe a poster featuring a rotund 50-something male hectoring a female colleague, with a strapline: 'Is your explanation really necessary?"

That is brilliant

I don't think all men do this but there's a specific type who do. Exp and most of his army mates did it constantly in relation to my job primarily. I'm a SW doing a masters and considering a phd. Not that huge in my circles of many female docs but these guys couldn't help themselves and felt thru had to make patronising comments at every opportunity 'you can't help everyone you know (sneer)' being a favourite.
I have never once had any of this from women. Ever.
I have also never had any mansplaining done (yet) by any of the men I work with (who are numerous and varied). I suspect it's because they have worked in a female dominated environment (though an academic one) for many years plus there are less of them so there is much less bloke camaraderie etc. Also (in praise of some fab male colleagues) I think you have to be comfortable with yourself to work mainly with women (if you are a man). I hope I explained that well enough.

'Moving on'

Love it!

... And now I must move on! This thread's turning out lovely! And on a Friday too!

Lurking

.... and many other good things beside!

Well said!

Good one LastMango (great name). Thinking about it, a senior colleague of mine (senior enough to get away with it) barks 'Moving on!' at people quite a bit...

The only tactic I ever want to use is stare at speaker a bit too long, then say 'Thank you for that' and move on, but while fun to think about it is too arsey for use in most work situations.

The stigma 'attached' to assertive women (i.e. attached to the befuddled little brains of 'people' who are afraid of/annoyed by assertive women) would be greatly lessened if more women could shamelessly bring themselves to be more assertive. Which means not worrying about being seen as a 'bitch' (unless, of course, you are in fact being a bitch but want to be in denial about it).

There's hope for the younger generation - this is a good example of attempted mansplaining today, battered away with grace by the new young female intern
Intern: "I have a query"
Mansplainer: "I will only answer it if it relates to history"

I'm happy to be called a bitch if it means my daughters or granddaughters don't have to live through this Hell I do.

I know. By 'bitch' I was thinking about the stigma assertive women get.

Most people don't want to be stigmatised just for standing up for their own intelligence, but for women it is highly likely. So I wonder if there is another way for women to do it while avoiding the stigma that's all.

Problem with 'mansplaining campaign': foreseeable purgatorial scenario of patronising male colleagues smiling sheepishly and announcing 'I hope you won't accuse me of 'mansplaining', but...'
Shudder

But FoodUnit, unless you're actually being rude, surely perceived 'bitch' would have to be in the eye of the beholder? In which case it would be entirely their problem, not something you need to or should worry about.

Oh I would LOVE a mansplaining campaign. Maybe a poster featuring a rotund 50-something male hectoring a female colleague, with a strapline: 'Is your explanation really necessary?'

The problem with mansplaining is that it is consistent with the prevalent power dynamic, so if you are being mansplained to by your junior it is easier to nip in the bud, but if its your boss it is tricky to do it without being confrontational or flirty and submissive.

Is there any way to doing it without being a 'bitch' though I wonder?

Maybe its about trying to change a culture through awareness raising instead of having to deal with it incident by incident. Such as the disability awareness campaigns at work.

Happy to move, Eldritch!

I guess one approach is similar to the one you've just taken (I think) - that is, if you can pre-empt the monologue you're about to be subjected to, to hold up your hand and say "If this is about [given subject area], no need to explain, I know that" and clearly re-direct the conversation. And/or state that if there's anything said 'splainer really thinks they need to tell you, 'splainer needs to 'splain it in an email?

I usually just say 'excuse me, I was talking.' Politely but firmly. Usually met with a scowl but nothing anyone can say to that without sounding rude. (Especially in class!)

Or ideas, even.

Let's move on. (I'm adopting a bossy-chair-of-meeting persona this afternoon, because I'm tired and cranky).

I'm interested in what people think is a good realistic means of dealing with the mansplain phenomenon, especially at work. Sometimes one can just ignore it. Sometimes, however, ones needs to assert knowledge/status/unwillingness to be mansplained. How, though? I don't mean snappy rude things we would never actually get away with saying, I mean something practical that doesn't leave one ont eh receiving end of a grievance procedure. Any ideads?

FoodUnit: I leave because I feel I will only be a hinderer due to fact I'm still learning, and I don't really know how to intelligently reply to the goaders as I feel I'm I'm merely a hinderer; I'm simply not as well versed as others. My response would simply be: 'fuck off, it's painfully obvious you're a misogynist troll. Such a loser I find it quite sad you waste so much time here' What does that accomplish? Nothing. My post would be deleted and the troll's would still stand, looking oh so reasonable just disagreeing with the viscous but under the radar insults and my post deleted.

The only reason I truly replied to this thread if I'm TBH, is due to the instantaneous erm ''rebuttal' to manpslainling with 'radsplaining...' Even I knew that didn't make any sense and I guess, sadly, I took the bait. :(