funding for part time phd - discrimination?

Can you not work long-distance?

It's worth asking them about it - I don't know exactly how it would work with your project, but often universities will accept long distance candidates if you explain to them how you will make it work.

There are part-time studentships available, here's one just enter the term part-time in the search box of the main site

I don't think it can be called discrimination as it would affect both sexes if one could not do a full week for one reason or another. From what I've heard there is huge competition for PHD funding and it's quite difficult to get with a lot of previous sponsors cutting back hugely on the numbers. I think I'd look at the possibility of the full time onesonce your DC's are at school. Some can be quite fexible I believe.

Yes, I agree - I just think it needs to be clear from the start what she's planning.

LRD: Yes, if the project itself is definitely longitudinal such that 8years is absolute, then submitting that proposal for a 3yr studentship couldn't work.

Sometimes ideas can be a bit more flexible though, and as you suggested, it could be presented as PhD + post-doc extension.

Also if the funding specifically rules out transferring to PT, then that wouldn't be an option, but some funding is from more general funding pots and it might be worth seeing if the university itself precludes transferring to PT.

TDoE: Way back in the dark ages, I received my studentship payments directly from the research council (quarterly), but now the research council money is paid direct to the university and the university pays the research students; so the contract would be with the university.

It isn't salary though, it's a stipend; which I'm not certain of the technical legal details of, but there isn't a pension, and if you need maternity you transfer onto statutory maternity pay and the stipend would be paused. Likewise there's no sick-pay, so you'd have to pause the studentship and apply for state benefits whilst sick. However, being a stipend, it is tax-exempt and doesn't count against the personal allowance, so any earnings from PT-teaching etc would have to exceed personal tax allowance before income tax would be due.

Btw, I'm not unsympathetic and I hope it doesn't come across that way.

It's just that the OP is describing a project she thinks will work better over 8 years, and that seems to be separate from gender issues and from people needing to work part-time for practical reasons.

Thanks LRD.

Annabella, can your DD's father go part time? How mUch holiday do you get with the PhD, is it 8 weeks? If so you could cover most of the school holidays and perhaps by finishing early some days and late others, see your DD after school some days?

But maternity leave isn't the same, is it? The research councils say up front that they don't usually have funding for part time students, and that if you get full-time funding, there is a time limit within which you have to finish. Maternity leave is simply taken out of that, so it doesn't count.

This is about someone fully intending to work on an eight year project, not someone who's one year into a full-time project and has found her situation has changed.

Surely a supervisor will notice that the project needs eight years not four when she applies? I don't think trying to get around the rules is a good idea, I just don't see how it could work.

Research councils certainly used to have clear provision for maternity leave within the studentship, so that legislation was adhered to; so the time scale for completion would be extended if there was time-out taken for maternity. Also most HE-institutions have provision for suspension of studies for various reasons, which can also increase the total completion time. (So LRD, if you needed study suspension, surely your studentship would be paused and then restarted, even if there's a clause that PT is barred).

Clearly the small-print would need to be checked regarding the studentship payments, but it might be worth checking.

Btw, post-docs are totally different - they are employed. We're not.

I have mine with the AHRC, I think.

I don't have a pension scheme, so don't know how that works.

Sorry, not very helpful!

I only know the experience side of it, not what the legal situation is.

So who does a PhD student or a post-doc have a contract with - the fundIng body or the university?

I always thought it was the university as isn't pension scheme membership via the university etc? But I don't know!

In fact, being cynical, I would assume one reason why PhDs are still funded, rather than students being employed and paid a salary, may be to avoid legislation about having to let people go part-time, I don't know?

It's not employment, ennis. But I don't know how it squares up.

I don't at all like that there isn't more funding for part-time work, but funding is a really horrible situation anyway.

I do know my funding is only there on condition I finish within five years tops. I can't change to part time and keep it. Them's the breaks.

...if said employer intends to decline the request, I mean.

If it's structural inequality that PT opportunities don't exist, I'm not certain that it's really that unfair for there to be 1 less FT place and one more PT place, if the OP is the strongest candidate for a funded position.

You wouldn't lose the funding just by asking to transfer to PT mode, and the OP has said she "could" do FT, just that PT would be better. So she could make the case for that 1year in rather than at interview. (Or she could find that FT mode is great and want to complete asap when she has actually started).

Is that the case, LRD? How does that square with legislation about flexible working being given due consideration and the employer needing to make a business case against it?

Um ... that's not a good idea! You could lose your funding entirely and you'd also be depriving another full-time student of funding unfairly.

This is a bit disengenuous, but apply for the FT studentships, and then 1year (or even just 6months) in, ask to transfer to PT mode. It's likely that it's easier for the HE institution to agree than to have you quit and try to reappoint.

I think that's an issue in itself, if the project needs too long for the time frame. Part of planning a PhD is writing a proposal that is doable in three/four years. I'm Arts, so we don't have the same issue of it being a problem to wait for results, but if someone said they wanted to do a project but it'd take more than three years, they'd be told that it wasn't a suitable project.

Is it something you can split into two chunks? If you can say there's three years of work for the PhD, and you have plans for the postdoc, that'd surely look great!

I may be wrong here and Annie may be right, that it's not a drawback ... but in either case you'd need to explain it to the people allocating funding, not just apply for seven years instead of three.

In my experience those doing 50% FTE part-time PhDs are allowed seven years to submit rather than four for full-time students, which seems reasonable. It may depend on the university?

In practice, OP, if you are a very good candidate and the research project is genuinely better done over a longer term period, the university may be able to fund you itself and give the other funding to other applicants. I would focus on trying to find a sympathetic supervisor who also has some clout and political nous.

As for the structural issues, I think that there is some good work being done, e.g. links between Athena SWAN awards and funding/REF. However, everything in HE is changing and/or financially squeezed currently so that equality is not an issue at the top of everyone's agenda right now. We certainly have quite a way to go in some respects.

"However a lot of the studentships(funding) are not applicable for part time phds. Surely this indirect sex discrimination? "

It is hard, but I don't think its indirect discrimation. A lot of people who do PhDs part time, do so because they have another job. (Ie. research scientist or Stay at home mum). If they were going to give funding to a stay at home mum then they would have to give funding to those who are in work.

What I find shocking is that people who do a PhD part time are only allowed five years to complete it, but those who are full time are allowed up to four years to submit their thesis.

I don't think it's discrimination not to fund part-time projects.