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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What ordinary things make you feel positive about feminism?

137 replies

LRDtheFeministDragon · 13/08/2012 11:36

I hope it's ok to start this thread - I wanted to because I was thinking a lot about violence and rape and all the awful things that happen, and frankly, I would like to think about some of the positive stuff too. I'd like to remind myself of the dads and sons and brothers and male friends we've got who do 'get' feminism, and the women we know who 'get' feminism and use it to make other people's lives better - it's not always a pitched battle or a lonely thing.

So, I want to know, who are the ordinary people in your life who make you feel proud to be a feminist (they don't have to be perfect!), and what ordinary things do you do, that you're proud of, that you do because you're a feminist?

I'll kick off: my baby niece makes me so proud to be a feminist. She is wonderful and gorgeous and clever (naturally ... she is not much over a year old Wink). But what makes me feel really proud of feminism is that she's growing up as the apple of her parents' eyes and the whole family thinks she is wonderful and can do anything - that's something we ought to be able to take for granted but women didn't used to be able to, and women in other part of the world can't.

And my brother makes me feel proud to be a feminist, because without feminism, I don't think he would have been able to take on the role he does as easily as he does, and he is really working hard (I know it's hard, he and his wife say so) to share the parenting.

For me, ordinary things I feel proud of - I've not completely managed to buy all books by women this year, but the majority of the books I've bought have been books by women, and I like this as a little feminist thing I can do.

What about you?

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GiuliaRossi · 15/08/2012 16:34

Pity!

I was wondering whether it involved eyebrow pencils.

StealthPolarBear · 15/08/2012 16:33

No, not one that I know of, just seemed a good cliche

GiuliaRossi · 15/08/2012 16:32

Btw is there a joke about the blonde and the pencil? I'm really curious now!

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/08/2012 16:27

People do change, don't they? It's encouraging. I think I've noticed how much my brother's attitudes are softening up - once upon a time he'd have thought feminism was all just a bit silly, a bit OTT. He can still come out with some shockers but in some areas he's become very aware and serious about it.

It was when he said to my dad 'you know, you're saying 'sexism' but you mean institutionalized misogyny really' I had a bit of a proud smile (he's my wee brother, I'm allowed to patronize him gently! Wink)

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GiuliaRossi · 15/08/2012 16:24

stealth hurr hurr

No, he didn't!

He is actually a really nice person, he just had Stone Age views for most of his life. Probably not his fault, I suppose.

LineRunner · 15/08/2012 16:10

Talking to my teenage son, and him sticking up for his sister's right to have the career that she wants.

StealthPolarBear · 15/08/2012 16:07

Did he finish it with the joke about the blonde and the pencil?
(sorry...couldn't resist)

GiuliaRossi · 15/08/2012 16:03

What makes me positive: that from my observation (limited, obviously) men in general, I think, realise and accept that sexism is unacceptable.

Doesn't mean that they necessarily always realise when something is sexist, but it's a very big step.

A guy at work who retired earlier this year told me at the last office Christmas party the story of how he had developed inclusive and enlightened views over the course of his career. Really touching, and encouraging.

QueenofPlaids · 15/08/2012 15:57

I can earn as much or more than my DP without people thinking he's no use, or that I must be aggressively dominant. No one would ever suggest his career should take precedence over what I want / do.

No-one bats an eyelid at the fact that the motorcycle is mine and the ridiculous amount of baking equipment belongs to DP Grin

No-one is horrified that I am in my 30s and we're not yet married / haven't got children. We both have the right to conduct our relationship as we see fit.

I can walk into a bar or restaurant on my own when travelling and am unlikely to be judged.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/08/2012 15:45

Grin at chibi.

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LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/08/2012 15:45

No, actually, I agree.

I think the fact they were rattled - and then made themselves look like idiots with those banned adverts - does show that anti-feminism is becoming part of the lunatic fringe, not something acceptable.

And it's pretty impressive that the people on here who got quoted in that didn't let it scare them into shutting up.

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chibi · 15/08/2012 15:43

deffo LRD if there is one place where men's voices are rarely heard, it's the internet Wink

MildewMayhew · 15/08/2012 15:39

You know what? It's a weird one, but:

The fact we scared the shit out of F4J enough for them to launch their hate campaign... The fact their campaign wouldn't have started were it not for them feeling intimidated by women... And I've probably worded that completely wrong...

But to me, it showed that they were, as much as they'd hate to admit it, taking notice of women.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/08/2012 15:34

You're fine! Grin

Actually that bit of laughing is now chalked up as another thing that makes me proud to be a feminist. Wink

I just thought, d'you think we should boycott MN until Justine enforces a decent 50/50 male/female ratio?

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MildewMayhew · 15/08/2012 15:33

Hmm So, by listening to women only playlists, we're discriminating against men?

HAHAHAHA!

How do you discriminate against the sector which holds power?

Sorry, LRD. Will come back to this when I've stopped laughing.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/08/2012 15:26

uppercut, we're trying to reverse discrimination. Do you not understand that?

Would it maybe be ok to go back to the topic of the thread, which was things that make you feel positive about feminism? I think otherwise we're going to go round in circles.

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StealthPolarBear · 15/08/2012 13:31

You do not know a lot about discrimination do you?

Uppercut · 15/08/2012 13:28

Discrimination creates victims, not equality; what you give you will receive in kind.

You seem ideologically incapable of recognizing the double-standard in your discriminatory principles and the obvious consequences, making further debate pointless.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/08/2012 13:03

Why not?

My discrimination is in favour of women, it's an attempt to reverse their marginalization.

Why is it morally no better to try to reverse discrimination, than to enforce it?

That doesn't really follow, I think.

I'm wondering what you think to SPB's point, too.

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Uppercut · 15/08/2012 13:00

Actually I didn't say any of that.

I simply said your discrimination is morally no better than anyone else's.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/08/2012 12:53

Eh?

No, that makes no sense, uppercut. This isn't about me personally - being white, I'm very well aware I'm privileged in lots of ways.

Feminism doesn't use the same tactics as its accusers at all. The whole point is that feminists recognize that discrimination exists, and that some people have more privilege than others. It's important to fight against that. You are saying, no, don't bother to fight discrimination, let's maintain the status quo that discriminates against women and non-white people. Why?

Why do you think women and non-white people do not deserve an end to discrimination?

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StealthPolarBear · 15/08/2012 12:52

So is it discrimination for someone to like (say) French music?

Uppercut · 15/08/2012 12:46

"...their fingers..."

Uppercut · 15/08/2012 12:45

Oh, I see... 'discrimination is discrimation except when I'm discriminating against you.'.

If you've ever wondered why feminism isn't taken as seriously as it perhaps should be, it's because it frequently adopts the exact same tactics (excuses?) as its oppressers. This is simply hypocrisy and reduces feminism to a competing faction, not a moral cause.

Inb4 someone says 'what about the menzzzz....', the equivalent of sticking there fingers in their ears and humming loudly.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/08/2012 12:37

Uppercut, you are not listening to me - it's not the same.

Men are the dominant group. There is a difference between trying to get better access to a marginalized group, and reinforcing dominance.

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