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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

What ordinary things make you feel positive about feminism?

137 replies

LRDtheFeministDragon · 13/08/2012 11:36

I hope it's ok to start this thread - I wanted to because I was thinking a lot about violence and rape and all the awful things that happen, and frankly, I would like to think about some of the positive stuff too. I'd like to remind myself of the dads and sons and brothers and male friends we've got who do 'get' feminism, and the women we know who 'get' feminism and use it to make other people's lives better - it's not always a pitched battle or a lonely thing.

So, I want to know, who are the ordinary people in your life who make you feel proud to be a feminist (they don't have to be perfect!), and what ordinary things do you do, that you're proud of, that you do because you're a feminist?

I'll kick off: my baby niece makes me so proud to be a feminist. She is wonderful and gorgeous and clever (naturally ... she is not much over a year old ). But what makes me feel really proud of feminism is that she's growing up as the apple of her parents' eyes and the whole family thinks she is wonderful and can do anything - that's something we ought to be able to take for granted but women didn't used to be able to, and women in other part of the world can't.

And my brother makes me feel proud to be a feminist, because without feminism, I don't think he would have been able to take on the role he does as easily as he does, and he is really working hard (I know it's hard, he and his wife say so) to share the parenting.

For me, ordinary things I feel proud of - I've not completely managed to buy all books by women this year, but the majority of the books I've bought have been books by women, and I like this as a little feminist thing I can do.

What about you?

OP posts:

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 16/08/2012 22:48

Ooh, sounds nice. Or guys and 'gettes, maybe?

Maybe I'll go with French, German or Italian - we don't have a direct translation of "mesdames et Messieurs", do we?!

Original poster

LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/08/2012 22:48

I would kinda love to rock up to class and address them all as 'guys and dolls'.

I already have to bite my tongue not to call everyone 'love' because I grew up with it - MN has mostly cured me of that, though!

messy - did it?! Wow. Poor gentlewomen.

I suppose if I got snotty I'd say I don't like the class aspect of gentlewomen. Didn't the suffragettes get poncey about working class women, or am I forgetting and doing them a huge disservice?

OP posts:

GiuliaRossi · 16/08/2012 22:45

That is so true, messy

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 16/08/2012 22:45

Aww, messy

DS1 chose a big pink outdoor toy. DS2 gets upset if he doesn't get the pink plate.

Hope they come out with more articulate comments as they grow up!

messyisthenewtidy · 16/08/2012 22:45

What about "gentlewoman"? I quite like that as it sounds suffragettey (proper word that ). Is it my imagination or did gentlewoman come to mean prostitute, hence the change to "lady"?

messyisthenewtidy · 16/08/2012 22:42

coffee that's lovely. My DS also says things that make me beam with feminist pride. I always thought that not having DDs would mean I couldn't make a difference, but actually bringing up our DSs to value women as equals will have a huge effect.

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 16/08/2012 22:33

Yeah, especially as "guys and ladies" doesn't work, it has to be "guys and girls" (or Guys and Dolls )

Original poster

LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/08/2012 22:24

Good on your DS coffee!

ennis - yeah, I prefer a vivacious effort.

I find I don't notice so much about using 'ladies', but I have to really stop myself from referring to a mixed group as 'guys' and I know some women really don't care for that.

OP posts:

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 16/08/2012 22:16

Vivacious = conscious

I actually quite like that autocorrect!

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 16/08/2012 22:16

Hmm, I find myself using Ladies because I am making a vivacious effort not to use Girls and Women doesn't work in an "addressing a group" context. I think it's ok because I would use Gents in the same way (eg "Gents, time for the meeting") but I do cringe a little because of the "be a lady" type background.

coffeeandwine · 16/08/2012 22:00

Oh, meant to add a story from when DS1 was at preschool which made me very proud.
He was role playing with another little boy and a little girl. They were playing "doctors and nurses" and the girl wanted to be the doctor. The other boy said girls can't be doctors, to which DS piped up, apparently very indignantly, that yes they could and he knew because his Mummy was one. . That was about seven years ago and I still remember it with pride.

coffeeandwine · 16/08/2012 21:56

I need to salute my DH. Never had any qualms/ debate about housework, child care, etc. He does at least as much as I do. We never have needed any discussions about this, it's just as it is. More importantly, the two moves across country we have done since being together have been for my job and he has happily followed and when needed, got a new job. I earn more than he does and he doesn't have any hang ups about that.
I don't have any DDs to influence, but have 3 DSs and am sure with his (and my) influence, they can grow up with a full understanding of feminism.

Original poster

LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/08/2012 21:42

Mmm. I think the objection to 'lady' is that it implies the same ideas about polarized gender roles being a matter of courtesy and civilization that 'gentleman' does.

I take your point about the etymology of woman but I get the impression most people don't immediately think of that whereas 'lady' conjures up all sorts of dodgy associations ('act like a little lady!' etc.).

But anyway .... these are great to read, especially about attitudes improving over time.

I like that I can put down a bank card in a restaurant, and - slowly, slowly - more and more places will not automatically assume it belongs to DH. I really don't think that happened often ten years ago and now it is much more common for them either to take a moment to read the name, or to politely hold the card machine in the middle of the table so either of us could take it.

OP posts:

alexpolismum · 16/08/2012 21:35

Is "woman" really considered a better term to use than "lady"?

Funnily enough, I read that post just after looking up the etymology of "woman" (I already knew the gerneral provenance, but I wanted some of the finer details). "Lady" has a much nicer etymology!

In reference to the main topic: the fact that this section exists at all and has taught me so much and increased my book buying bills

Trills · 16/08/2012 21:01

We have a work experience student in our (mostly male) office.

I thought she was getting her A-level results today.

Turns out she is actually getting her GCSEs next week!

She is very confident and bright and as far as I can tell has not been treated at all differently for being "a girl".

The mostly-male office is also mostly-under-30 and I don't think it would occur to most of them to do anything that would end up on a "work experience horror stories" thread in the future.

Woodhead · 16/08/2012 20:17

Delurking for this thread because FWR gives daily positive affirmation.

In the wider context; the youngest male in the office agreeing that "woman" is a much better generic term to use than "lady".

Increasing understanding that married couples don't need to have the same surname (although that still has a way to go).

Bicycles

and all the fantastic wonderful benefits from earlier feminists that I don't even have to bother thinking about (contraception, voting, owning property, equal pay-scales etc etc). My Grandmother had to give up work on marriage (Librarian)-I'm so grateful when I bother thinking about everything that has been achieved and even more grateful that I don't have to be aware of these on a daily basis.

GiuliaRossi · 15/08/2012 17:37

Thanks, LRD: that makes sense.

Original poster

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/08/2012 17:19

I didn't see that one - I think there's always a small minority of people (and they're not necessarily dadsnet posters or male posters, either) who kick off about feminism and seem bent on having a go at it.

A while back, the group Fathers for Justice got it into their heads that Mumsnet was a horrible, awful place full of screaming feminists trying to victimise them and they tried to run anti-MN adverts which promptly got banned. Every now and again they or other Men's Rights Activists (MRAs) will stage a wee board invasion, come along and make daft comments to try and wind people up, that sort of thing.

It's not great but, well, what can you do? Other than hope they knob off.

There are shedloads of lovely bloke posters around, and most regulars on the feminism board have male children or partners, so it's not like we don't know blokes like that are in the minority.

OP posts:

GiuliaRossi · 15/08/2012 17:16

By the way, I haven't got a favourite joke, but I have got a favourite limerick. Here it is:

There was a young man from Dundee
Who was stung on the neck by a wasp.
When asked if it hurt,
He replied "Not at all:
He can do it again if he likes."

GiuliaRossi · 15/08/2012 17:14

Bit of a derail here, so apologies, but hopefully it won't take up too much time.

As some of you know I am new on MN and have just had a WTF moment from clicking, more or less at random, on an Active Topic that was in an area called dadsnet. A lot of men ranting about "entitled feminists", whatever that means.

Anyone got a potted summary of what that is all about?

GiuliaRossi · 15/08/2012 16:39

That related to the accountant joke, not yours, LRD!

GiuliaRossi · 15/08/2012 16:38

I don't think I want to know about that joke!

Original poster

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/08/2012 16:38

Ooh, that reminds me of my all-time favourite joke (which tells you something about how sad I am).

Q: How many Oxford dons does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: CHANGE?!

I don't know why that makes me happy, but it does.

OP posts:

StealthPolarBear · 15/08/2012 16:36

No the only pencil joke I know is the one about the constipated accountant (who could, I suppose, be the blonde)

Original poster

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/08/2012 16:35

Because I am an idiot, I googled 'blonde and pencil joke'.

Don't bother.

OP posts:

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