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Original poster

What ordinary things make you feel positive about feminism?

137 replies

LRDtheFeministDragon · 13/08/2012 11:36

I hope it's ok to start this thread - I wanted to because I was thinking a lot about violence and rape and all the awful things that happen, and frankly, I would like to think about some of the positive stuff too. I'd like to remind myself of the dads and sons and brothers and male friends we've got who do 'get' feminism, and the women we know who 'get' feminism and use it to make other people's lives better - it's not always a pitched battle or a lonely thing.

So, I want to know, who are the ordinary people in your life who make you feel proud to be a feminist (they don't have to be perfect!), and what ordinary things do you do, that you're proud of, that you do because you're a feminist?

I'll kick off: my baby niece makes me so proud to be a feminist. She is wonderful and gorgeous and clever (naturally ... she is not much over a year old Wink). But what makes me feel really proud of feminism is that she's growing up as the apple of her parents' eyes and the whole family thinks she is wonderful and can do anything - that's something we ought to be able to take for granted but women didn't used to be able to, and women in other part of the world can't.

And my brother makes me feel proud to be a feminist, because without feminism, I don't think he would have been able to take on the role he does as easily as he does, and he is really working hard (I know it's hard, he and his wife say so) to share the parenting.

For me, ordinary things I feel proud of - I've not completely managed to buy all books by women this year, but the majority of the books I've bought have been books by women, and I like this as a little feminist thing I can do.

What about you?

OP posts:
peoplesrepublicofmeow · 16/08/2012 23:21

think=thick

peoplesrepublicofmeow · 16/08/2012 23:20

messy , that drives me nuts too!, why would the waiter assume i would know anything about wine. i'm a builder and my wife is a graduate yet still the wine allways come to me , and .....and heres the really think bit, i like a couple of beers waiting for the food , and i like a glass of wine while eating, so, i'm asked to sample wine while i still have half a glass of hopps to swig!, and OH has water.

messyisthenewtidy · 16/08/2012 23:20

LRD, honey!! What do you mean you're not a good feminist?! That's like saying Hugh Heffner isn't a minging old perve! I will not have such negative self-talk, young lady!

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 16/08/2012 23:19

Messy, don't you get asked "who would like to taste it?" that is crap!

peoplesrepublicofmeow · 16/08/2012 23:16

LRD No, 'gentlewoman' refers to the female of the species, so it doesn't mean the same as 'gentleman'. Even in Shakespeare.

ok, you have me there , i'll try to pay better attention in anatomy class in future

messyisthenewtidy · 16/08/2012 23:15

Oh yes, the bringing of the wine to the man for tasting - that bloody well drives me nuts!

Original poster
LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/08/2012 23:13

coffee - do it!

I've been doing it since we got married (it coincided with us getting fed up about this stuff) and it's fairly amusing as a bit of (very) low-level consciousness-raising.

OP posts:
Original poster
LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/08/2012 23:12

Well, I am not a very good feminist and not very well read on the suffragettes, so probably no, you're not allowed to diss them!

I think if they were classist, they were of their time, too - it's not easy to break out of everything your society says.

I use 'woman' a lot, but only as a slightly jokey mock-insult ('don't be daft, woman!'). Maybe that's bad? I don't know.

I certainly don't like the way some men I know call their wives 'the woman' or 'my woman', somehow - but maybe that's because the men I'm thinking of are not the nicest and that's why I associate it with them being a bit sexist.

OP posts:
peoplesrepublicofmeow · 16/08/2012 23:11

when out for a meal with the OH sometimes we decide that the 'mutual account' will get it
my wife has her own carreer and her own money, as i do, but when the mutual account gets it, the bill is useually is given to me, and to a lesser extent when she is paying it still sometimes comes to me, however ( and really you have to start looking out for this) i notice young waitresses/waiters are placing the bill in a sort of non discript area of the table , but slightly closer to who they think might be paying the bill.
i feel sorry for them actually walking this minefeild of politiacal correctness.
my OH couldnt care less and accuses me of over-analising, and actually having young kids we often end up walking to the till area to pay up because the kids are playing up.

coffeeandwine · 16/08/2012 23:09

DH and I are out hot a meal tomorrow night Felicity, I'm going to have to make sure I pay now, just to see what happens. Grin I am used to them bringing the bill to DH and the wine for tasting as I'm the one who pretends to know a bit about wine , but never what you described.

messyisthenewtidy · 16/08/2012 23:09

LRD Shock! Are you sure you're allowed to diss the suffragettes like EVER?! Isn't that against the basic fundamentals of Fem Code or somethng?! But yeah, I do think they were a tad classist, some more so than others.

My inner feminist says "Mess, the simple thing is to just use "woman" FGS!" But it feels a bit rude, a bit abrupt. If I were to say "woman" to someone I would feel like I'd be acting like a caveman dragging said person across the metaphorical cavefloor. Or singing Moby, in which case I would be howling. I also noticed that the Olympics presenters almost never said "woman" in the singular, but did say "women" a lot.

Why is that? What is not ok about using "woman"?

Original poster
LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/08/2012 23:07

felicity - oddly, I think trendy young chains can the worst - I think sometimes they have the rudest waiters, anyway! Grin

OP posts:
Original poster
LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/08/2012 23:06

But then alex has a point about etymology, in that a woman is a man with a womb, which is harking back to the old idea that women are somehow not-quite-men.

OP posts:
FelicitywasSarca · 16/08/2012 23:06

Pleased people are shocked, thats got to be a good thing,

Just to depress you further it was in a 'young trendy' chain restaurant in the heart of Leicester square, so not a dingy local where the staff are set in their ways...

Although, I have paid before and it doesn't always happen so it isn't universal.

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 16/08/2012 23:03

Meow, FWIW, I think "woman" isn't a generally offensive term. Maybe language has evolved since the time of the tsarinas.

Original poster
LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/08/2012 23:02

No, 'gentlewoman' refers to the female of the species, so it doesn't mean the same as 'gentleman'. Even in Shakespeare.

It's ok to get this wrong, though, meow. I mean, I don't have a clue about MRA 101, it's ok not to get everything. Smile

OP posts:
coffeeandwine · 16/08/2012 23:01

messy I totally agree about the importance of bringing up boys.
felicity I am [shocked] at that. I often pay when DH and I go out as I am the one who likes to scrutinise the bill and I don't think this has ever happened to us.

peoplesrepublicofmeow · 16/08/2012 23:01

gentlewoman is certainly used in shakespeare, not sure what it means though, but i imagine the same as gentleman?
i dont use lady, i try to use woman, but woman can be an insult, the tsarina of russia was known as the 'german woman' by the prolatariat, somehow a woman being no better than she could be.
it's all wrapped up in nuance and culture and it's a shame there isnt a term without baggage

GiuliaRossi · 16/08/2012 23:00

That is shocking, Felicity, and depressing.

messy, when I said "that is so true" I meant about raising sons!

Original poster
LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/08/2012 22:59

I do like sisters, hester. I never used to but I like it now. Smile

felicity - oh, no, I get that too! In fact DH and I have a pact that I will always pay and taste the wine, just to see what happens. But I am only happy that it happens more often (IME) that they don't always give the card to DH ... I know they will still do it a lot!

It is annoying, isn't it?

OP posts:
FelicitywasSarca · 16/08/2012 22:56

LRD don't want to burst your bubble but on Tuesday night DH and I were out to dinner and as you do were discussing the everyday sexism project. He scoffed at the restaurant card thing as being unlikely in this day and age... So we tested it, I asked for the bill, made a show of reading it so the waitress could see, got my card out and placed it in front of me. She picked the card up, put it in the machine.... And passed it to DH which is one way of losing your tip

It was so blatant it was funny.... For about 2 minutes Angry Sad

HesterBurnitall · 16/08/2012 22:56

How about 'sisters', LRD?

I've never heard of gentlewoman being a euphemism for prostitute.

I thank feminism for, oh so much. Belonging to myself, allowing me to raise my children as individuals, the freedom to make my own decisions and many late nights having my eyes opened even wider, my preconceptions challenged and my understanding stretched on the FWR board.

Original poster
LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/08/2012 22:54

What about 'sir'? Being a massive geek - ahem - familiar with certain excellent works of televised fiction, I've seen 'sir' used as gender-neutral in a rather cool way, and although I react against it because it's the male becoming default, there is something nice about women being 'sir' too?

trills - yes, indeed! Grin

OP posts:
Trills · 16/08/2012 22:50

You are a gentleman, I am a gentleman's daughter, thus far we are equal.

Trills · 16/08/2012 22:50

Gentlewoman in my mind sounds as if your father is a gentleman i.e. he has no trade but just lives by being a landowner.

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