Just feeling really angry at all the murder, assault, rape of females that goes on

SGM thanks for that post about the decompression time it's very interesting if tragic.

I'd just add I don't think it would be the only reason for male DV. I was reading about DV in Palastine and it mentioned that the hopelessness and poverty coupled with the cultural expectations caused some men to become violent in the home. Where as the women of course were on the recieving end. Another sad state of affairs.

SGM, that's really interesting.

Sorry, I cross posted.

MrGin, but if it's the act of killing/trying to kill another human being that makes people violent, how would that work? Or you mean it's that in conjunction with the influence of violent parents?

I think I agree with plenty, I feel like this is a specific factor in a wider problem.

I'm not saying that to dismiss it though, I think it's a very real possibility.

Thanks SGM, I will look.

I do think it's valid to ask about warfare and the effects on men - there's an old thread about this, but I can't remember the title so can't find it, does anyone else remember? Dittany was talking about the way compartmentalization is damaging.

I would say, though, mrgin - that's only western/US forces in those places are 'majority male'.

I can see how being involved in combat can brutalise soldiers and fuck up their morals and impulse controls on return to civilian life. I think that's a very specific problem though. Male violence towards women is a much wider problem than that.

LRD I don't think it's about being a 'trained soldier' I think it's about the act of killing another human, or doing them serious harm trying to.

And as I said earlier to grow up around a violent parent possibly increaces the chances of inheriting those traits, between wars.

Though tbh there have been wars going on constantly pretty much since WW2. more than one a generation and to various degrees.

Is this the guardian article that's being talked about? The study it talks about is by Parity which is a men's rights activist group. They have a lovely website here. They appear to be big fans of Erin Pizzey and are really pissy about women's DV charities (set up and run by women) for not accommodating them.

So, I don't trust them as a source of an unbiased study. They say they have used the info from the BCS and I share SGM's scepticism here: how many of those women were acting in self defence, for example? Also, DP took part in the latest BCS and they do it in your home. It's conducted in a separate room from other family members, but there are probably a lot of victims who do not feel safe to talk about DV with only a thin door between them and their abuser. I think BCS stats are one of the best sources we have but I don't entirely trust their data.

Well these thoughts were prompted by a video on the BBC. A young smiling soldier sitting next to happy smilling his g/f discussing his uncontrollable anger and violence towards his g/f on return from Afghanistan. The report highlighted the problem.

I think places like Afghanistan, Vietnam, Somalia, Korea, WW2, Iraq Iran, etc still involve soldiers, the majority of whom are male, to kill each other in proximity. Possibly damaging them inside. As born out by the BBC video.

I follow you, MrGin. I do think your idea that the psychological effects of being a trained soldier might indeed be different from those of being anything else during a war, and it's possible to say that without making value judgements about suffering.

I just wanted to stress that women have historically been pretty heavily involved in the killing people bit of war. I'm not sure what counts as a 'small minority', and I expect the numbers vary, but I would be interested to know.

I think where I wonder about this idea, though, is that if the psychological effects of being a trained soldier prompty violence in some unique way that other war trauma doesn't, wouldn't violence ebb and flow along with wars? And what about the very different ways men and women have been trained to fight wars over time? You'd think that might have an effect (or I would).

I do think there is an interesting possible correlation between warfare and violence in non-war contexts, I don't want to dismiss that at all.

LRD. I am not saying that women have never in the history of humankind killed people in war. The Russians had a lot of female frontline troops. I'm sure that there are millions of cases in history where a woman had killed someone in war.

But you can't seriously argue that it isn't a small minority, possibly reflecting female violence in the home. Maybe not.

there is no frontline in warfare anymore and hasnèt been in a long long time

SGM I'm sure it goes both ways to a greater lesser degree, I've seen it happen. But that's not the point, let's just agree that the small percenage of women in frontline killing relects , at least, the percentage of violent women .

I'm not stating warfare - DV as a fact, I'm just exploring the idea.

MrGin, women did go up to people and kill them. 'Dealing with the aftermath' can be awful, I agree, and is incredibly traumatic, but women aren't somehow separate from killing. That view only holds from a particular perspective on WWI, really.

Women I went to school with have been killed in action in the war in Iraq.

people dealing with the aftermath of bombing campaign?

novi sad

belgrade

I haven't / don't dispute that women have had to deal with trauma during warfare at all.

I'm positing that going upto someone with a knife and killing them is going to have a different effect on your soul than being the person dealing with the aftermath of a bombing campain.

the idea of two rows of men in flashy coats approaching each other from opposite sides of a field far far far away from anybody else...that kind of warfare has not been seen in aaaaages

you might also like to ask yourself how those troops in the way back when days behaved when they commandeered farmhouses and billeted their men there, or what kind of jolly japes they got up to in taverns, or passing through villages

also rwanda, congo, sudan

stalingrad

sarajevo

vietnam

baghdad

beirut

aleppo

just to name a few...

Well , honestly, if you think that there were large amounts of women in the trenches or battle fields of the 20thC and before I'm not sure I can take you seriously.