Just feeling really angry at all the murder, assault, rape of females that goes on

So some Feminists are up there with the Creationsists

I should be clearer, they don't believe what the Creationaist believe, its more an opposition to Evolution but for different reasons (mainly around nurture primacy afaics).

I googled feminism vs evolution too, but the first few pages of results deal with evolutionary psychology. Are you meaning to imply that feminism and feminists are standing shoulder to shoulder with creationists to dispute the theory of evolution?

Its much more nuanced that that - various feminists have different reactions. Also, not all "modules" of evolution/sociobiology/evo psych science are as well received as others. Science just likes ones that have good data and are predictive, and doesn't like theses that are not - but thats not the criteria all the opponents use.

So some Feminists are up there with the Creationsists, but others are behind Evo Psych in all its glory, and see it as helpful (One paper says "equity" feminist by and large like, "Gender Feminists" do not.

I got especially interested in those parts dealing with modern women's control of reproduction and what that may mean, it is truly revolutionary.

But do read some of it and make your mind up, its very interesting.

I googled feminism vs evolution too, but the first few pages of results deal with evolutionary psychology. Are you meaning to imply that feminism and feminists are standing shoulder to shoulder with creationists to dispute the theory of evolution?

Does feminism dispute evolution? Or evolutionary psychology? They're not the same thing.

Should read Sociobiology and Evo Psych....

LRD - I agree the evolution stuff is out of place on this thread but it's a conversation I'd like to have some time

To know why men are violent, you have to talk about evolutionary theory, unless you want to restrict yourself to only "nurture" based theories and exclude all "nature" ones.

I think my issue is, I think a lot of this thread - unfortunately - has been more about bashing feminists and claiming science as a back up

I don't think that's right, its mainly been about disputing male violence, its reasons, and who its victims really are. I did note some of the MN Radical Feminists making statistically incorrect claims, so yes they have been challenged, and rightly so.

As to "claiming science as a back up" - well, if you are familiar with the science you will, as it answers a lof of these questions vey elegantly.

I've been amusing myself for the past hour or so googling Feminsm vs Evolution, and it would seem that that the battle lines have been drawn - for many decades, this isn't new at all - between Evolution/Sociobiology/Evo Psych, and 2 main Feminist sub groups, viz:

• those who believe there is no natural differences between men and women, ie all differences are down to nurture, and

• those that believe all oppression is due too a Patriarchy and women are its defenseless victims.

BTW - it seems the other big opponents of Sociology and Evo Psych over the decades are the liberal human studies - various 'ologies' - as it attacks a lot of their core tenets too.

My suspicion therefore is that a lot of those most anti the use of evolutionary etc theory on this thread are in fact liberal arts/humanities educated Radical Feminists :)

Night night.

Right, it's been a chuckle, but I am finally off to bed, to dream of the day when we have converted meow into the perfect feminist clone...

I feel we're getting closer everyday

Quite. I feel my womb a-wandering as we speak.

Yes, LRD, you mustn't exert yourself with all that thinking! Your reproductive organs will be in danger....

Night chibi.

- true, messy.

What do you mean you don't have educational privilege meow?! You have the privilege of knowing us

oh dear. anyway, and so to booze bed

I think, chibi, the argument is that if a woman wins an argument through force of logic, or knowing what she's talking about, or any of those underhand methods, she should admit it's only right she accept she did it through unfair privilege over men. After all, how else would she win an argument except by an unfair advantage, when you'd naturally expect men to win?

Oh, my little brain, how it doth suffer these difficult questions.

?????????????

Sorry, I am glad you've got there, I'm being uncharitable, but goodness, that was surreal.

do you have educational privalige chibi? maybe that counts for more than my male privalige?

Ok, I'm done.

Night all. It's been surreal.

No shit, sherlock.

You do realize we've all been trying to explain this to you for quite some time, that you need to widen your perspective from this rather bizarre understanding of 'evolution' to other things you clearly (as you say) don't know about ... on the one hand, I'm glad you've finally seen the light, but goodness, what took you so long?!

oh please, don't let your ignorance of these things act as any barrier to your musings

an understanding of evolution, anthropology and phycology ( none of which i have studied) can shed some light on human behavoir

We have not yet established that the violence in human males that's being discussed in this thread is an evolutionary characteristic, and not one that is acquired
evolutionalry pressures are not alone in shaping a person.
"officer, i cant understand why he beat the ole lady up, i allways kicked fuck out of him when he was young and naughty"
violence can , of course come from ones nurture.

It was the peppered moth.

'you understand that single cell organismes over millions of year became people right?'

Now, actually, that is an interesting way to put it.

'People' is a loaded term, which 'human' or 'homo sapiens' is not. And I thought we were meant to be excluding morality from this debate - can we use the term 'people' without reference to social or moral constructs? I don't think so.

And I think this is precisely the point. Single-cell organisms evolved, and a result of that evolution was homo sapiens. But does this prove evolution can explain everything that makes people, people? I'm not convinced.