So much in society would improve if we removed the emphasis on PIV.

mrkidd: Because not all sex is PIV perhaps?

I'm not a man, so I'm not qualified to comment, but I have to wonder if a man's orgasm outside of a vagina is really such a runner-up prize to orgasm within a vagina. If there's not much difference, WTF is PIV such a big deal? Is it a societal thing? But it's so widespread across the world that it seems unlikely.

Well there's certainly a substantial difference. For me, PIV sex is a whole qualitatively different experience from other kinds. It simply feels, physically, different. I'm not expert but can only assume that this is an evolutionary thing, with our genitals and brains having evolved to attach maximum pleasure to the activity that will perpetuate our genes.

Having said that, I don't see why encouraging teenagers to explore other kinds of sex in preference to it couldn't be a positive thing.

Why are people using PIV as an acronym for sex? It's a three letter word for fuck sake.

I'm sure a lot of people have both piv and oral, manual sex on the same session (for want of a better word!) so the risk would be similar. There isn't much public health awareness etc that advertises using condoms/dental dams for oral for heterosexual people anyway so that could improve things. Piv is just a much larger added risk. The risk of pregnancy is risk very minimised, being pregnant can mean dying or being severly harmed.

Surely ONS involving intercourse are far more likely to have condoms used than sex involving just oral? It's dangerous to suggest that oral sex is less risky than PIV, what about herpes and HPV? Even mutual masturbation could transfer the HPV virus.
How many women (or men) would insist on a dental dam being used for cunnilingus for example?

I would hope that the vast majority of women have PIV sex because they enjoy it.

I completely agree op. When looking at it objectively it seems crazy to put yourself at risk of huge life changing things happening to you just so a man can have an orgasm. One might stands in particular the risk to me seems too high to engage in piv that means as a woman you could get pregnant; have a baby or abortion and then risk dying or severly harming your body to have that baby! Women also contract std's much easier.
Oral, manual stimulation can be equally if not more satisfying particularly for women and it runs much lower risks. I wish more women didnt feel they had to have piv as that is what men expect.
It's something no one ever questions and maybe a campaign like your suggesting might make a few people think.

When I was at school this is what happened.Most girls got boys to give them oral but only counted piv as sex to keep your numbers down.eg I have only had sex with one person so I am a good girl and not count the few others boys that had gave you oral.

Personally I think if all sex were biologically supposed to be PIV the clitoris would actually be inside the vagina.

I think the fact that men and women can enjoy non-PIV sex is the oldest form of birth control. Evolutionarily it actually isn't good to have baby after baby, regardless of food shortages/predators/war, until you die and all existing children have one fewer parent to raise them.

^^

I think that is a very good summary, except I don't think of the bias as "unfair", more as "expected" owing to the biological imperative..

So getting back to op. Can you remove emphasis of PIV? Isn't it just personal preference?

Saying that you personally prefer PIV orgasms is fine. You're just stating your preference.
But stating that all women prefer it, and that it is superior, is just..well bloody daft at best.

I mean, come on. Since when do all women feel the same about...well...anything?

Bertie you are obviously not one of the laydees who bonsoir discusses anal orgasms with over a coffee in gay paris

"Doesn't some lesbian sex involve vaginal stimulation depending on the couples preferences?"

well sure
But they don't usually use a penis for the vaginal stimulation, as far as I am aware.

Hello

My name is Bertie and I have had orgasms in several different sexual, um, situations and I can categorically say that I don't find any one particularly "better" than another and, indeed, often feel like having a non-vaginal orgasm, either just as much or probably more often than I feel like a PIV one (God this feels clinical ) And yes, I have had an orgasm that way and it's very nice, but I don't want it all the time.

Is it just me who's getting dizzy? Feels like we're going around in circles...

Since when did pointing out that there are all sorts of ways to get off and get your partner off, and that individual people like some of these ways and not others, and that it's stupid to insist that everyone who doesn't do it the way you do it is inferior become 'Waaah, feminazis want to stop me enjoying sex!'?

Saying you prefer PIV is not a slight against lesbianism. Doesn't some lesbian sex involve vaginal stimulation depending on the couples preferences?

PIV is the ultimate goal for some people, you can't change that. It's personal preference, just the same as other preferring oral or now sex at all. Not very practical.

Saying that PIV is superior to any other sort of sex is homophobic, yes

I think that's scraping the bottom of the moral high ground barrel, sardine....

I am fascinated by the extraordinarily high correlation between radical feminism and defence of the merits of non-PIV sex

Its one of the main sub-tenets of one extreme "sect" of Radical Feminism (that a lot of the MN Radfems seem to subscribe to afaics). Overall blaming Thge Menz for everything is one of the biggest differences between Radical and other Feminist views. It also, IMO is why they are such a tiny minority (albeit very strident) because these views are seen by most women as barking impractical.

I've never claimed, and never would, to experience another woman's orgasm. All I know, from talking to lots of women about it, is that women who experience the whole gamut of orgasms (clitoral, vaginal, anal etc) with a long-term sexual partner always, IME, think that PIV orgasm is qualitatively totally different to any other sort. Women who don't experience vaginal orgasm consistently defend clitoral orgasm as great and just as good as any other kind.

Go figure.

Bonsoir: what you're actually doing is displaying a laughable level of ignorant solipsism. Why does it bother you so much that other people have different sexual preferences, anyway?

Bonsoir I know you like to think you know hell of a lot, about hell of a lot...but you really cannot say how most women experience orgasm. Even those with highly developed empathy can't actually feel what someone else does .

I dispute (strongly) the idea that women don't orgasm, and orgasm better, during PIV, unless the woman is not in the right state of mind and body (which is under her control, and hers alone) to orgasm.

You mean you like to goad a stereotype. Most people do not conform to stereotype. So your goading does not hit the target but instead serves to insult a whole bunch of other people who you were not targeting.

It's a bit silly really. I am sure you don't mean to say that all homosexual people have inferior sex lives, the same as I'm sure you didn't mean to say (famously) that you can't stand to be near anyone (man, woman or child) who is "ugly". However you make these statements and don't seem to really think them through, often.

'tis true, I like to goad the man-hating, sex-hating misery guts who call themselves feminists and like to blame men for all their own failings