Positives and negatives of the Olympics.

LRD, I assume you mean me. In which case - why bring up what we know to be an abhorrent cultural practice in a discussion specifically about positives and negatives around the Olympics? Because I assume that the OP meant to discuss the Olympics specifically, given the thread title. That is why I raised it. If this isn't specifically about the Olympics, then it becomes a free-for-all about any negative practice, anywhere, any time.

Oh, dear.

network, you're not being harsh, you're just missing the point.

Does it occur to you that - just possibly - it was the SA culture we were objecting to? And not assuming the olypmic organizers would wave a magic wand and change it?

Come on. How could that not occur to you?!

To refer to this as 'whiny', when we're talking about saudi arabia's attitude to women ... words fail.

I am really, really trying not to be harsh here, but some of the comments are ludicrous.

Firstly re the marathon. The women's event is on the 5th August, a whole week before the men's event. So, unless the BBC et al are planning to delay coverage until approximately 1400 on Sunday 12th August, how could anyone possibly deduce that coverage favours the men's event? Had Paula Radcliffe been fit, the BBC coverage would have concentrated on her above all other entrants - and rightly so. She has been an amazing athlete for GB over the years.

Secondly, the accommodation provided by LOCOG has been absolutely equal for the entire event. Individual country's decisions re travel are out of LOCOG's hands.

Thirdly, someone had a go yesterday at the fact the the Saudi women athletes were walking behind them men. That is a terrible indictment of SA and it's stone-age culture, but again LOCOG cannot affect this. Why can people not rejoice in the fact that they, Qatar and Brunei were effectively forced by the IOC to include women in their teams? This is a case of 9 steps forward and 1 step back, and it should be celebrated. Certain people seem to want to find a negative aspect to even what should be the happiest events.

As another example, someone on here last week kicked off because the GB women's team were 'forced' to play two days before the opening ceremony. This is a tremendous honour, and a recognition of just how good these women are. In terms of international ranking, they are above the men's team, and opening their home Olympics was a tremendous chance to raise the profile of the women's game in the UK. But no, let's have a good old complain about it instead.

I remember reading a comment on here a few months ago from a 'senior' feminist, i.e. someone who had been an activist in the 60's. She commented that she found modern feminists to be a whiney bunch (her words, not mine). I'd love to know what she makes of this thread.

Please do enlighten me...

"Still more men taking part, and given better status/accommodations etc"

Really?? Better status and accommodation? Hmmm.

Rugby will be included on the Olympic programme from 2016

see here

softball, a woman-only sport, was dropped after Beijing, although I don't know why. possibly because it's extremely boring

I don't think there is much of an argument for netball on the basis that it is left out for being a mainly female sport. There are lots of other team games that aren't in the Olympics. Rugby and cricket for a start. I would really like to see cricket in the Olympics, the England women's cricket team are fantastic.

I find the Olympics ghastly in many ways, but must admit to being slightly cheered by all the British women competitors doing so well. It's so rare to see female sportspeople given as much as attention as male ones, and nice to see lots of photos of women in sportswear achieving things rather than standing around looking pretty. Also good to see that the silver medal winner Lizzie Armitstead has spoken out about sexism in sport:

www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-30/british-medal-winner-armitstead-attacks-sexism-in-cycling-pay.html

I don't think this has been linked to yet - interesting read.

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/jul/27/arab-women-sport-no-more-barriers

Synchronised Swimming is a woman only Olympic sport.

They really should have netball there (apart from being a great sport it will increase possibility of NZ winning medals). Men play netball these days too.

TeamGB is 48% women,the highest it has ever been.

The women that I have seen carrying out medals and flowers are in "business attire" (smart, knee length dress and flattish shoes with a small sash ) which equate to the suits for the men doing this role. No mini skirts etc. the choice of suits for both would be nice but it's progress.

No, you sounded fine and you're right lemon.

casey - ah, in that case, that rule is another positive, I would say. And you're right, it doesn't make her any less brave (maybe more? I suppose she doesn't have the protection of being excited she might do really well). I'm not patriotic but it is exciting having this happen so near home.

I hope so, LRD :)

I hope it didn't sound like I was being needlessly picky, I just hate any 'accepting crumbs' attitudes.

I don't think she could - both the Saudi women are competing under the whatever-it's-called provision that lets the IOC waive normal qualification standards to encourage representation from countries that otherwise wouldn't get to participate. AFAIK Sarah Attar is a good-but-not-outstanding college athlete who wouldn't ever have come close to qualifying for the USA. It doesn't mean that she's not brave, of course - going from being an anonymous American college sophomore to being the focus of massive international interest, including from factions who violently disagree with what you are doing, is a big deal whichever way you look at it.

Good on her. She presumably could have competed with the USA - it must be a big thing to compete with SA, she's very brave.

I read namechange as being incredulous about SA, not us, lemon - at least I think so?

kickassangel, one of the Saudi women is US born and bred, her father is from SA, iirc.

Sometimes, this place is utterly unbelievable. Why's that, namechangeguy?

I think it's pretty sad to feel grateful that they're there at all!

If they get shoved to the back and one may not even be able to compete, how is that any more than minimal progress?

What I would really like is the shooting and archery to be mixed like equestrian events are. Is there any reason for there to be separate men's and women's events in these sports? I was wondering this today.

Dd2 just commented that was the reason netball wasn't an Olympic sport because it was mainly known as a sport for women? I said I didn't know the answer to that! Interesting idea. I wonder if it's the case. After all, there are a lot of less well known team games (imo), such as handball, included.

I thought the inclusion of the Suffragettes was great. The fact that every country has female competitors is also great. I have noticed that female athletes have been very prominent and, of course, our 2 medal winners so far have been women.

LeeCoakley, I was just about to post about headscarves.

One of the Saudi women, Wujdan Shahrkhani, may not be able to compete in her sport, judo, if she can't wear a headscarf.

I'm not sure whether it's her that insists on wearing it, or the Saudi Gov't.

Saudi Arabia? Well, yes, it is, but I suppose it's great they were there at all!

The look in that woman's eyes when the camera did a close-up was wonderful.

'When the Saudi team marched out at the OC, the women were at the back, walking behind the men!'

Sometimes, this place is utterly unbelievable.

I didn't like the all-female country name carriers. They looked like they were in the stocks in those contraptions! The pot carriers were mixed iirc.

I thought including the suffragettes was good, I could forgive the mainly male entertainment after that. Love the 'new' female competitors but I thought there was still some controversy over wearing headscarves whilst competing. I hope that's not going to become an issue and overshadow the groundbreaking debuts. What I would really like is the shooting and archery to be mixed like equestrian events are. Is there any reason for there to be separate men's and women's events in these sports?

Dd2 just commented that was the reason netball wasn't an Olympic sport because it was mainly known as a sport for women? I said I didn't know the answer to that!