Why is the patriarchy so god-damned afraid of female sexuality?

Another consequence of this is if a woman doesnt fit the mould of what is presented in the media. The things shouted out in the street arent always complimentary. Im a bit overweight and have had nasty comments shouted at me in the street (usually when i walk past a pub or a building site) its a bit better now but thats because ive lost some weight not because the blokes in question have got more polite.
Ive also had the pleasure of a local taxi driver telling me that it was good that i was on a diet and that "women should look after their looks" while sqeezing his beer gut in between the seat and the steering wheel. (this was several years back when id been in the local paper for losing a lot of weight.)
Only once have i had a woman shout at me in the street and that was a stressed "yummy mummy" who took the corner too fast in her 4by 4 and i was already crossing the road so she shouted "move faster you fat cow"
And this is because of the images of "perfect women" we are continually bombarded with but i do also realise that some people are mysogynistic nasty, have no manners and are just fucking rude.

Op what do you think of this advert currently being aired in the states

obviously the writer has been washing way too much porn, but is this embracing female sexuality or male?

Mine comes more from a lack of self esteem to be honest.

I always wonder if he looks longingly as opposed to me looking at another female and going "shew she has a nice figure"

Mine would be kind of a "wow she looks lovely and I wish I could look like that" whereas I wonder what he thinks.

I don't think I would mind if I could look in the mirror and growl and pant at what looks back

I don't think it's wrong to look at attractive people either ... but if I walk past a building site and see a sexy bloke, I am probably going to be thinking about the times I've been cat-called and felt actually quite upset. That makes me feel a bit less than sexy. It's not because I am, deep down, a prude who doesn't like men or a secret victorian with a shame complex ... it's simply because I've grown up in a world that treats women's bodies differently from men's.

I would imagine that in a non-sexist utopia, we'd all be happily gazing at each other quite a lot of the time. And there would be no issues. The issues aren't in the act of looking at someone's body, they're in all the baggage around it, surely?

Oh FFS this is where I always fall out with funsponge feminism. It's not wrong to look at attractive people, whether in the flesh or in pictures. It's not wrong to fantasize about having sex with them, as long as you only actually engage in flirting or having sex with people who are willing. Some people (regardless of gender) are more interested in sex than others and that's fine.

Men have typically ruled the world. They have been the TV producers, directors, news anchors, writers, ad executives. They have said what goes and what doesn't in the media. And as someone said - as a result of that, they've openly displayed women as objects. Women a few years ago got the attention for being objects (now, they do it for advancement).

Women have grown up seeing naked women everywhere. Because of that, men are so used to seeing naked women everywhere.

I've said to my DH that it's an insult to me (and hurtful!) if he looks at another women - be it on the telly or on the beach. I will, very literally, rip his balls off if he disrespects me like that. Or, I will tell him about every famous sportsman I have snogged in my lifetime. And I win.

I don't think the answer is just carry on using the media to objectify the 'beautiful' but do it with men too. Who does that benefit? We should be celebrating and enhancing female sexual freedom not just objectifying men too!

Patriarchal thinking runs along the lines of 'If women decide they like sex and want to have it on their own terms, it'll be the end of the world.' As BC says, women who embrace autonymous sexuality are less interested in being one man's property when they could have several different men to play with.

I've been involved in the production of porn for women over the years, and the same problem persists: it's not that women don't like it, or aren't 'visual', or even the quality of the product not being good enough. It's because the majority of people with power in the publishing industry are men and they continually insist that 'My wife wouldn't look at anything like that therefore it won't sell.'

And for all the hype about women loving 50 Shades, most of the really full on bitchy, angry and brilliant takedowns of those wretched books are written by women (and it's also notable that the first volume is massively outselling the others; a lot of people are buying Book 1 out of curiousity, realising how shit it is and not bothering with the others.)

It is mostly because women are seen as sexual objects, in the grammatical sense - sex is something which is done to us, rather than we do to someone else.

Plus you have all the societal conditioning that women don't really/shouldn't like sex and if they do there must be something wrong with them - slut-shaming, cougars, man-eaters etc.

If women are having sex for fun, fewer of them would want/need be stuck in relationships/marriages providing domestic services to men, so the patriarchy loses out.

By enforcing rigid rules for acceptable female sexuality, the patriarchy gets free workforce - which is why single mothers, lesbians and promiscuous women come in for such a hard time as they don't fit this mould.

Oh, yes, I was just going to mention Bones in that context!

That at least has a main female character who, though she's attractive, is also socially awkward and gets the guy despite doing lots of the pearl-clutchy 'unattractive' things.

Exactly LRD. It isn't surprising that women have internalized the sexism, after all it's pretty prevalent.

Also, beggars can't be choosers. Even those shows that do have female centred plots subscribe to a ton of sexist myths. When there are so few well-written female characters you have to take what you can get basically.

It's a bit unfortunate for me that I don't like gore as most of the stronger complex female characters seem to be detectives on very macabre crime shows!

Well, isn't that the point? There isn't ATM a huge impetus for the media to change, unless society changes. And that could happen for all sorts of reasons, including people like us discussing stuff and changing our minds about things.

I don't follow why it's surprising women would watch sexist TV - why would women be less likely to than men? Mad men is aimed at women isn't it?

I thought Mad Men was quite feminist in how it highlighted the sexism of the 60s and that was why it was so popular. I mean the story arcs of the female characters reflect the burgeoning feminism of the day.

As for 50 shades, not read it, but yes it does seem a bit bamboozling!

Mad Men, the highly successful sitcom about an ad agency set in the 60s with very sexist attitudes towards women counts far more women amongst its fans, than men. 50 shades which is about BDSM is of course a hit amongst women.

There is a thriving market even amongst women for sexist marketing.

You can say it is due to social conditioning. But if it works, what impetus is there for the media to change?

My DF was pretty scathing about KC and the whole of SATC at the time.

I'll take Miranda and raise you Barney HIMYM, Howard BBT, David Spade from RE! Added to which Miranda is after 1 man and not surrounded by hordes of hot men willing to go to bed with her and who she treats like dirt by devising ways to brush them off the day after. Which actually demonstrates my point perfectly.

But actually I'm not saying that we need more Kim Cattrells and for women to start objectifying men on the same scale. That's not the answer. What I'm saying is we need less Joeys and for men to stop objectifying women on the scale that they do.

And no, there's nothing wrong with men finding women's bodies attractive. It's about the scale of it and the effect that scale has.

namechange - I don't think they think about it in such depth. It's the culture of advertising. Let's not forget this is the industry that gave us the lovely acronym '2CinaK' for soap powder ads where one rather dim housewife is told by another dim housewife all about the benefits of Brand X over Brand Y. Stands for 'two cunts in a kitchen'. Tells you everything you need to know about the attitudes to women in that industry.

I can't remember journalists' names now, but I remember blokes commenting at the time, namechange (people I know, I mean).

And yes, I would imagine of the millions of viewers of SATC, some were men!

LRD, who was nasty about Kim Catrall? Do men even watch that programme? Genuine question, I have never seen it.

Miranda? As in Miranda Hart?

i am female, and i am sexual, but i would NOT want to see male beach volleyball players in speedos.
i also do not find chippendales sexy. i don't know whether that's my conditioning or not but i find it a real turn-off and i guess i'm not alone.

Good point messy. And when women are shown being sexually aggressive or having fun, there's a lot of disapproval. Personally I think Kim Cattrall is attractive, but loads of people were really nasty about her character in SATC, where she has a great time getting lots of sexy younger men.

Even when female sexual desire is portrayed the women still have to be hot. The trope of an ugly/slobby male ogling after hot chicks is seen everywhere (Howard in BBT prime example - gets gorgeous bernadette). But you'll rarely find a sexually aggressive female that doesn't also have to be gorgeous or at least highly groomed.

The new Lynx ad is an example.

It's so fucking boring. I want to see an ugly/average looking woman wearing regular t shirt jeans, acting like a goof ball, having all the laughs and devising ways to get laid. And get the hot bloke.

I don't think politics is necessarily the reason, though? It could also be conditioning, or not having thought outside the box? Or responding to their awareness of their audience's conditioning/politics.

I think one of the reasons that sexy male nudes might not be such a successful selling ploy is that a lot of women would feel a bit embarrassed to be so blatantly ogling men and reducing them to sexual objects.

Men on the other hand havent been taught to be embarrassed about their sexual desires. In fact their desires are constantly pandered to and encouraged, accepted as a normal part of manhood. Fine for them, great for capitalism, but not so great for those of us who have to put up with the effects of it.