How can we make younger women see how feminism is relevant to them?

You are very condemning of feminism, namechangeguy; what is your experience of contemporary feminism and feminists? It has nothing in common with mine.

I have no doubt that SGM's teenager is very clued up and engaged - it's hardly surprising given who her mother is! And not surprising either that she would make like-minded friends. I would be delighted if teenagers these days were more aware of such issues than I and my friends were in the 1990s, but since I don't know any teenagers myself I'm not capable of judging either way.

Mooncup, I am afraid that StewieGriffinsMom finds our views that most 15 year old girls are utterly self-absorbed and politically unaware patronising and rude. Still, I guess we can only speak from our own experiences. There is, however, plenty of data to suggest that young people just do not engage in politics any more;

www.electoralcommission.org.uk/data/assets/electoral_commission_pdf_file/0019/16093/youngpplvoting_6597-6188__E__N__S__W.pdf

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8546536.stm

I was half-serious about Cole and Mandelson, though. People will listen to those who they feel are relevant to them. A bunch of dried-up old books about feminist theory and how men hate women will be a complete turn-off to most teens. The OP is asking how young women can be re-introduced to feminism, and how it can be made relevant to their lives. I am suggesting that in the era of image-based politicians and sound byte policies, it needs new presentation and new presenters.

Well, most 15-year-old girls are utterly self-absorbed and politically unaware (God knows I was) and most people generally are fairly unreflecting and don't question the norms of the period. A century ago the majority of women were not that bothered about getting the vote, and some actively opposed it.

But I imagine there are a lot of teenage girls who have been made miserable by the size of their thighs, by being left out for not having the approved tastes and interests, by their first boyfriend circulating a semi-naked photo of them to all his friends, by having their interest in physics derided. It would be nice if those girls had access to people or material that would tell them that the problem wasn't with them but with the wider culture of our society, surely?

I have a 15 year old daughter who is doing pretty well at a single-sex state school. The only thing standing between her and higher education is the cost, i.e. does she want to take on such a huge debt. This, of course, is nothing to do with her gender and all to do with the economy.

I have tried to engage her in discussions about politics and human rights, but frankly she is far more interested in exams, clothes and going out with her friends (sadly not necessarily in that order). She understands the basic principles of unfair discrimination, but she has little or no awareness of basic political beliefs, structures or history, and she glazes over if I make any attempt at discussion.

I think, if she came on here and read some of the debates, she would not understand what all the fuss was about. To paraphrase Harold Macmillan, she has never had it so good. If feminism wants to appeal to her and her friends, you'd be better off employing someone like Cheryl Cole as a spokesperson and Peter Mandelson to prepare policy statements in 20 second sound bytes - all uploaded on Youtube of course.

Show me some then

I do think it's a bit that younger women don't seem to engage with 'feminism', but at that stage in their lives they often haven't encountered discrimination. Massive generalisations, but education works well for girls. The workplace works well for female school leavers/grads. Most of the young women I know are well in control of their contraception, so aren't worried about unexpected pgs tripping them up.

What's harder of course is the more insidious messages about our bodies, appearances, approval from men, etc etc - but many older feminists find that hard too, don't they? I certainly do, anyway.

Wilson, I see your point but If you look at the facts...

Eclectic I did masses of thinking in my twenties, ta. In fact I was at my most socially aware in my teens and twenties. Mortgage, career, marriage and kid take up far more head space than partying and working all the hours god sent ever did. I think we do young women a disservice if we think they don't have time or inclination to think about things like feminism.

I spent many years myself saying I just wanted equal rights, so I can entirely understand where people are coming from. The reason I now call myself a feminist is that it is women as a class who are discriminated against, and therefore it is women I want to support and focus on. People working for black/gay/disabled rights never get criticised for not calling themselves 'equalists', so I'm not sure why feminists do. (Well, I am sure - it is part of the continuing insidious societal prejudice against women who assert themselves.)

I think it's the label people don't identify with but they probably identify with some of the principles. My partner believes in equal rights for women but he wouldn't label himself as a feminist. Same with my dad or mum or many of my friends. The label is not important. Equality is.

No one is saying anything about hairy legs :). In popular culture, you only hear about feminists who have strong opinions. Other feminists fighting for equality don't necessarily represent themselves as feminists straight off.

People on here (and indeed in real life) always talk about these extreme man-hating feminists that put everyone else off, but really they are rare to the point of non-existence in my experience and I can't help feeling they are a straw man perpetuated by our culture to discourage people from interest in proper feminism, which as this board (and even more so the Relationships board!) demonstrates is very, very relevant to women's everyday lives.

I'm really not convinced that hairy-legged man-haters are the problem here (and what on earth is the problem with hairy legs anyway?).

Also, how much thinking did you really do in your twenties? There's much more I be getting on with. Many women only discover feminism when they have experienced something that's made them look into it or when they have time to reflect on their lives. In my twenties, I was working all the hours god sent and partying. No time to think unfortunately. I was trying to make something of myself.

In a way feminism is an extreme of equalism, people may take time to travel along the spectrum and can't be rushed IMO.

Agree bedhog.

Changing the label might help. I've never liked the word 'feminist', I think it smacks of 'them and us' 'boys vs girls' etc. Plus there's the negative hairy-legged man hater connotations. I've always preferred to think of myself as an 'equalist' - I'm not sure if that's even a proper word but it's one I've used to describe my beliefs and hopes since I was about 14.

There is nothing worse than someone trying to 'educate you'-it makes me want to think the opposite.

I think that you have to stop lecturing them and telling them what to think.

I think there needs to be a way to help people make links for themselves - but also agree with others that the identification isn't that important.

For example, I 'came back' to feminism fairly recently.

1. through reading posts on here that challenged me
2. through membership of the White Ribbon Alliance, which I joined after having my own terrible birth - I then became very interested in maternal health in general and in developing countries in particular
3. through raising a boy and hearing a lot of negative 'boys will be boys' chat and looking for a way to challenge that.

Suddenly the three things came together and I remembered I was a feminist.

Now, clearly I'm not the target audience you're talking about but that sort of joined up approach, which targets ishoos that the particular age group may find relevant and helping them find the feminist slant to them, may make sense.

Sorry if that isn't the clearest post in the world!

I don't think that's it. Not for me anyway. I'm not denying that I have read some feminist literature that has made me feel uncomfortable. But the real reason that I tried (unsuccessfully) not to identify with feminism during my 20's was because I was aware of how unpopular it was and that was without knowing any of the ideologies/main writers. The word "feminist" was an insult and i was very aware that if I did want to express pro feminist theories I would have to balance it with assurances that I didn't hate men.

Feminism has a bad reputation in some ways because of the extreme ideology some strands represent and the lack of knowledge of other strands. Plus maybe young women dont really understand how it affects them as the theory is so far removed from real life for most 20 something's in this country. It needs to be more open and practical IMO. Younger people might read something they don't agree with that comes from a respected feminist and decide its not for them. At the moment the term feminism is too focused on theory rather than action.

I really don't think the term is important, I think all people should be made aware of equality in general and how this affects women.

The fact that young women don't want to identify as feminists is part of the problem IMO because it's a result of the bad press given, which is in turn a result of the backlash against and general resistance to the advances of feminism.

I agree with mooncup. Identifying as a feminist is a secondary point. It's only a label and not one many young girls would want. Standing up for themselves and women in general is a better way to approach it.

I think that focussing on the situation in other countries is a good thing because it shows where our own society has come from in terms of attitudes and that such attitudes are still simmering beneath the surface here.

Personally I think the biggest thing affecting young women is the sexualisation in the media that seems harmless but affects how girls see themselves as well as the double standards imposed upon them by their peer group. The problem is that for teenagers being approved of by boys is so important and so a lot of them might see feminism as a huge buzz kill.