Schools denying girls the cervical cancer jab on religious grounds

Rosabud, of course I'm not defending FGM on the grounds of cultural history, it was in relation to difficulties faced in changing the attitudes of the women themselves to stop the practice. But I thought it would have been obvious from my post, or do you choose to twist it to suit ?

Corsets. There's a fascinating diary excerpt, think it's 17C online from a 13yr female who describes the excitement and pain of breaking in her new corset. Describes how her mother ties her into it.

Footbinding took me a while to understand it from the point of view of mother who would put her daughter through such pain but from a historical viewpoint and given opportunities I could fathom why so many would put their daughters at risk and cripple them for life.

Widows on funeral pyres yes understand why that happened

Yes they are all barbaric, screwed up practices yet taking it in the context of educated western females routinely placing themselves under the knife for various augmentations, body modifications, self harming, starvation and probably several hundred other weird practices where do we place the line as to what women should be allowed and not allowed to happen to their bodies ?
Possibly some masochistic reminder females pass down to females that in order to fully understand womenhood we must in some way contiue the programing of pain and suffering that must go with it ? For Eve's sins, wasn't she forever to endure pain in childbirth and all of her daughters too?

I can't get sentimental on certain subjects, not because I don't care but it clouds reality and facts. As a mother of DDs who has GDs I possibly have more of a vested interest than most in feminist issues and the impact society does and will have on them.

Your statements reveal much about you as a person but go a long way to understanding why so many young females do not wish to engage feminism. As supposed champions of women and their plight you have a pretty strange way of showing those looking in just how much you really care, or are willing to grasp on certain subjects and choose to belittle, misunderstand those who offer something to a debate which isn't in keeping with one of the sisterhood.

You are seriously defending FGM on the grounds that it has a long cultural history??? What about women whose feet were bound in China? Very long cutural history. Women in the West wearing corsets so tight health was put at risk? Cultural history. Women not being allowed to vote? Extremely long cultural history. Widows throwing themselves on husband's funeral pyres.....

It's appalling that you would defend that kind of oppression on such a ridiculous argument.

"Presumably"

Such a scientific word.

Piglet John -- "I feel there is possibly something dark and sinister afoot"

I bet you do."

This is what you find your voice about? You've read this entire thread and all you can do is be snide? You can't respond to a single substantive issue?

The Nicaragua issue, FGM, they are all so much MORE distinct from this issue than whether or not the HPV vaccine is safe. The fact that millions - and millions of women - are being given this intervention - with poor safety testing - poor post roll-out monitoring - is such a huge feminist issue it negates the however many schoolchildren is who have to go to their GP to get it instead of getting it in school.

You want to turn this into a general religious issue - I'm sure lots of feminists, me included, will agree with you on those other issues. But you have been offered information on a health risk for millions of women - which supercedes the smaller specific issue addressed in the OP but is related to it - but WHICH DOES NOT INTEREST YOU AT ALL.

Do excuse the shouting - but it is inconceivable to me that you have not one single speck of interest in these women's voices. Not a tiny, tiny bit. And you call yourselves feminists? What, are these women not worth listening to? Are they somehow lesser beings? What makes you so confident that they're worthless that you don't even have to bother reading about them, and entitles you to be bickery and snide with women who draw their stories to your attention?

I'm afraid I can only say - no - it's shame on you. Piled on you.

SQ - another message of support!

Here is the link that Sossiges quoted btw in case anyone is interested www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2012/07/20/creationism-and-cervical-cancer-jabs-letaos-react-proportionately

It is interesting and it links to the data from the magazine here which doesn't say that this is only about 20 girls.

The survey is a bit of a dog's breakfast but it looks like 9 out of the 24 schools were stated as faith schools, I counted a couple that weren't and the others it is not stated, because it wasn't asked.

Most of them don't give a reason, but I don't think it is jumping to conclusions to think that it may be related to religion. Presumably all these schools don't see vaccination itself as 'against their ethos' or 'a matter for parental choice' when it comes to BCG injection (or rubella, in the days when it was given in secondary school).

LurcioLovesFrankie, women in Nicaragua being denied treatment for ectopic pregnancies and dying because the Catholic church has such a stranglehold on legislation that doctors fear they will be prosecuted under anti-abortion laws if they save a woman's life. Shame on the lot of you for trying to conflate the two issues."

Could you point me to the source and I can check out the situation. If this is the situation what is the stance of the WHO and is there any ongoing action to address the situation? Need to the aid Nicaragua receives, the origin and is there any criteria in receiving it. Putting pressure on these people could have the knock on effect in changing policy

Pigletjohn, I'm nearly half a century and have spent a lifetime loving talking to people and discovering what they are about.
Without any university education, but with a keen interest in knowing information and learning from those who have greater knowledge it hasn't been rocket science to grasp how society really functions and who pulls the strings, it's rarely ever for the benefit of the masses. So when I spend an afternoon not particularly searching but find the articles which raise concerns, especially in light that the company peddling the drugs have nbeen found numerous time to be providing dodgy drugs and witholding vital, life saving info, forgive me if alarm bells start tinkling.

This is maximum 20 girls you are talking about who can get the vaccine anytime they like from the GP ffs, will you all stop wetting yourselves.

Conflate? wtf is that?

SQ - just popped in to offer another message of support - damn right religious nuts trying to deny girls a vaccine that's potentially life-saving because of some sort of weird set of religious hang-ups about female sexuality is a feminist issue.

Note to anti-vaxers - this is a distinct issue from whether or not the vaccine is safe - these nuts don't care about women's health (women in Nicaragua being denied treatment for ectopic pregnancies and dying because the Catholic church has such a stranglehold on legislation that doctors fear they will be prosecuted under anti-abortion laws if they save a woman's life). Shame on the lot of you for trying to conflate the two issues.

"I feel there is possibly something dark and sinister afoot"

I bet you do.

MsAnnTeak now you sound like a rational person. An open mind is a gift.

SQ Don't let the door hit your arse on your way out

Against the mass hysteria of MMR I opted to have my DD vaccinated. Given hard facts I felt able to make that decision on her behalf for her benefit.

Given what I have gleaned from an afternoons surfing, and on a subject I had very little insight into I feel there is possibly something dark and sinister afoot and will continue to seek out the hard facts (there may be some new data which emerges which changes my stance, so could be one who would be campaigning for changes to ensure all children, even the eight year olds who are being targetted for vaccination, to seriously consider the benefits).

I have a family member who at international level is trying to find the best way forward to formulate a policy which can tackle FGM. Far from the commonly held belief females are forced to undergo the procedure, many see it as a right of passage, and it's administered by elder women. It's ingrained in culture. Try stopping the modern trend of proms and see how many were happy to comply. This is over 1000yr of culture you're up against. Hey, what do I know on the subject of FGM.

Tbh I do not know how you can expect to get anywhere when you refuse to respond to a single point.

The words victory and triumphant indicate that what matters to you is some stupid Internet bickering rather than women's health. I don't understand that in someone calling themselves a feminist.

piglet, thank you for that post

You are right I know, been there done that too many times and never again! So why am I doing it here? Dunno... So,

I will leave this - it's not going to go anywhere - and the anti-vac crew can enjoy their victory in peace

Sardine has not addressed a single issue and neither have you piglet. Very depressing.

Sardine you are being deliberately obtuse, you must be. No other explanation for your failure to understand. Meanwhile you are more interested in bickering than in the real issue that millions of girls are offered a risky medical intervention outside a medical environment with poor safety trials and failure to monitor post roll out reaction.

What is more you have repeatedly refused to address this issue and even admit it is an issue, never mind of feminist concern.

Why you do not listen to the voice of these women I cannot conceive.

SQ, you have great fortitude, but you aren't going to get any change out of the antivaxxers.

There's no-one else in here. I just looked in to try to offer a kindly word.

Nobody is here except us .. Are you suggesting no one on mn is interested either?

"accuracy you have said this:

"And just to put the lid on it - millions MORE women and girls than are being affected by this piddling religious nonsense."

and you have said this

"Plainly it's not of interest or we'd be talking about it, by the way." - in response to "I am trying to discuss, on the feminist section of MN, whether girls in religious schools in the UK should be "opted out" en masse from anything that goes against the "ethos". However it seems that conversation is not going to happen and the FACT that girls are being denied all sorts of things at religious schools is not of interest to most on here"

So you really have nailed your colours to the mast there.
I also wonder how your friends feel about you stating that none of them have any interest in the issue of religion in schools in the UK and what it can mean."

SQ won't be interested in this then:
"...only 9 of the 24 schools where the jabs had not been given were listed as religious schools. Of these, only two schools said that it was school policy not to give the jabs and that this was specifically for religious reasons. Both schools have less than 10 pupils."

Fancy getting apopletic that up to 20 pupils will not have been given the HPV jab in school (which they can have at their GP's if they're that desperate) for religious reasons.
Gosh, that is very exciting [zzzzzz.....]

[SQ sticks fingers in ears and flounces off going "I can't hear you neh neh neh"]

"I also wonder how your friends feel about you stating that none of them have any interest in the issue of religion in schools in the UK and what it can mean."

Whatever ARE you talking about? This is such a lie, why are you making stuff up?

Oh - sorry - forgot - you can't address the central issues so you just want to be randomly insulting.