Schools denying girls the cervical cancer jab on religious grounds

I'm not interested in discussions on the pros and cons of vaccination. For what it's worth, I experience partial hearing loss as the result of a bad reaction to a vaccination when I was 16, but that hasn't made me "agin" immunisation.

What does concern me, however, is the issue raised in the original post - that state-funded schools are able to "opt out" of not just immunisation programmes, but also other programmes designed to benefit the health, safety and well-being of young people. If a school is completely privately funded, as much as I think they would be denying young people important information and access to services, they couldn't be compelled to do anything. However, if they are tax funded in any way, I believe they should not be allowed to opt out.

There are large high schools in areas near where my organisation works that refuse to engage with any sexual health services, that will not allow their students to be involved in teen pregnancy or teen parenting projects and have rejected offers from voluntary agencies to talk with their young people about issues including relationship abuse, sexual abuse, homophobia or sexual exploitation. All of these are massive issues for young people in these localities, but schools insist they "know best" how to deal with them, through moral and faith teaching alone.

One of my colleagues attended one of these schools and said she'd felt like a lamb to the slaughter when she went on to university because she had been so sheltered and was so ignorant of even basic information about sex, sexuality and risks.

I don't actually know if these two schools have opted out of the HPV vaccine or not, but I wouldn't be surprised, given their previous stance on any issues related to sex or sexuality.

I really cannot imagine what will stop you this time from responding.

Pj oh absolutely, you're absolutely right about poilio, smallpox - whatever you say.

Now then, any response to those concerns about HPV vaccination in schools?

The issues were brought up some time ago and rather than have them addressed people have tried to talk about fGM, wife-beating, polio, smallpox..it looks like changing the subject in order to avoid difficult questions.

So let's say you're right about all those things so that they don't trouble you any more.

Now - what aout the problems with Cervarix safety studies, the views of senior vaccine researcher Diane Harper, and the voices of women damaged by the vaccine?

I haven't seen the figures which you vaguely refer to.

But surely you agree with me, no?

"I look forward to the day when Polio is wiped off the face of the earth by extending vaccination to those few isolated corners where antivaxxers have managed to keep it going.

In the same way that Smallpox has been eradicated from the wild thanks to the strenuous efforts of healthcare teams providing vaccinations to all corners of the earth. No doubt there are antivaxxers who were not in favour of the eradication of smallpox."

I wonder what will help you respond to the problems with Cervarix safety trials, the concerns of Dr Diane Harper, the problems of women damaged by HPV vaccine?

How about for argument's sake I say, yes Pigletjohn, smallpox was wiped out by vaccination. There we are. That's that settled.

Now, does that help us decide that there were no problems with the Cervarix safety trials, that HPV expert and principal vaccine investigator Dr Diane Harper has no concerns over its mass rollout, and that these damaged women are lying about their post-vacccine health?

I don't think it does, but at least now you can respond without fretting about smallpox.

Well I'm wondering why you won't respond on the issue of HPV vaccine when it was brought up really quite some time ago and has nothing at all to do with smallpox. In your own time.

I'm wondering why you're ambivalent about the eradication of smallpox. Tell me about the advantages you consider would have been gained by not eradicating it.

PJ you've had nothing to say about the safety trials for Cervarix, the views of Diane Harper or the voices of women damaged by HPV vaccine.

Why is that?

It is because it's easier to shout SMALLPOX! therefore you are an antivaxxer and are wrong about everything?

People always go to smallpox when they're struggling with a response.

Yes, the Indian government's health website. They're not all that anti-vaccination, you might not be surprised to hear.

You don't know anything about polio or its incidence or its effects.

Actually I'm ambivalent about smallpox vaccination. Some statistics show that the biggest outbreaks were after vaccination campaigns.

I suppose if you're a 100% committed antivaxxer then you won't accept other sources such as the World Health Organisation.

Where do you stand on Vaccination and Smallpox?

I haven't seen the figures which you quote from a doubtless reliable source and not some antivaxxer propaganda website

But surely you agree with me, no?

"I look forward to the day when Polio is wiped off the face of the earth by extending vaccination to those few isolated corners where antivaxxers have managed to keep it going.

In the same way that Smallpox has been eradicated from the wild thanks to the strenuous efforts of healthcare teams providing vaccinations to all corners of the earth. No doubt there are antivaxxers who were not in favour of the eradication of smallpox."

Shows what you know. Cases of polio paralysis in India down from 50-thousand about a decade ago to zero (allegedly). Cases of non-polio paralysis up from around zero to 49 thousand last year. Coincidence much.

It's cheap and easily-administered OPVs that have wiped Polio off the face of the earth except for a few regions where rabid antivaxxers keep it going.

The point about "shedding" Polio Vaccine is that in an area with endemic polio and poor sanitation, there will be a lot of full-strength wild polio in the envronment, especially in water polluted with sewage. Adults in that area will usually have some immunity because if they didn't die from it when young, they may just be crippled for life to some extent, or they may have no symptoms or be carriers. These people who still have the infection will be excreting it and perpeptuating the cycle of infection, disability and death through the generations.

A child or baby given the OPV will achieve a degree of immunity. Interestingly, they will excrete some of the weakened live vaccine. The upside is that other children exposed to sewage containing this weakened live vaccine have a chance of being infected by it and developing a degree of immunity from the weakened strain even if their antivaxxer parents prevented them from being immunised. Of course, in the environment I am describing, these children will be the lucky ones if they are infected by the attenuated strain rather than the virulent wild disease.

Interestingly, in a small but unknown number of cases, the attenuated strain can mutate back to a virulent strain over a period, and can then cause the disease. This is one of the reasons why when polio immunisation is carried out in one of the four countries in the world where it remains, due to obstruction by the antivaxxers, great efforts are made to immunise all the children at the same time, to prevent subsequent infection by a mutation. The children of antivaxxers in such a village would be at particular risk.

I look forward to the day when Polio is wiped off the face of the earth by extending vaccination to those few isolated corners where antivaxxers have managed to keep it going.

In the same way that Smallpox has been eradicated from the wild thanks to the strenuous efforts of healthcare teams providing vaccinations to all corners of the earth. No doubt there are antivaxxers who were not in favour of the eradication of smallpox.

Oh yes Soss. In slum conditions. How fricking stupid is that. Of course the wealthy can have IPV but yknow. I don't suppose Bill Gates gives a sanitary failure about that.

Nice. Isn't that the OPV which sheds?

Here's another (current) example of religious edict and immunisation: Pakistani police having to force polio immunisations in areas where mullahs have spoken against it.

Back to the OP: did the article include whether and how PCTs are ensuring HE children are offered the jab?

And reply came there none.

Just realised - you don't know about the "previous" because you refuse to read, hear or find out about it.

Well now you know.

Pharmaceutical corporations have, as a copper might say, previous. And lots of it.

It reflects very badly on you that you read this whole thread, don't care about the women involved and have only posted in order to be sarcastic, abusive and snide.

Still, at least I can rely on AnnTeak's support

I have no idea how you can still deem it as either unsubstantiated, or a smear

Accuracy

"A little hypocritical after talking about unsubstantiated smears "

So having refused to see an unsubstantiated smear when sossige wrote it, you now see one, do you?

more than a little hypocritical.

Don't worry, I can take it