'Tragic Family Situation' - murder of children, apparently by their father.

The language is interesting again.

You say your friend lost a child, which sort of cuts out the crime and the perpetrator.
I can't remember what it's called - is it the passive voice or something? Where crimes are spoken about in such a way that it cuts out the person who did it.

Oh yes of course I have seen that case. Certainly it was very widely reported although I haven't been following it closely or anything.

Sardine - you haven't heard about Lianne Smith's trial in the papers? She was found guilty less than three weeks ago.

I can understand your point, OP, in terms of press reporting. But it doesn't suprise me the police using that kind of terminology - they generally would use some kind of term to denote that it wasn't a 'stranger' attack.

FWIW, I know someone who lost a child in these circumstance, and they referred to it as a family tragedy as well. I guess it was quicker than explaining the whole terrible situation. Terrible that there even has to be a 'shorthand term' for these kind of situations

Plumpdog most people know what "family matter" means, don't interfere, private, not anyone elses business.
Describing this as a family situation is very similar.
Rather than a crime, or a murder, or anything that sounds like someone has actually done something wrong.
What they have said makes it sound like they were killed in a pile-up on the motorway or similar.

Reading the article on the BBC again - the comments they quote are all people sounding as if what has happened is a terrible accident.
It's not a terrible accident.
Well unless it does turn out that they were all killed by a falling tree or something. but the police would have said so if that was the case, surely?

a tragic situation would be one in which all were mysteriously and unluckily struck down by a lethal virus or swept away by flood waters or something

this was a deliberate, violent act - surely the media usually prefer to use terms like brutal murder or savagely slain or something where people are stabbed to death?

Most of the 21 men murdered by a partner each year will prob have been killed by male partners, Edith. Just wanted to point that out.

These crimes are overwhelmingly committed by men - and usually on women and children - so discussing it here and the language used is useful I think.

Like I saw another headline today "body find is missing prostitute" rather than "woman". The way these things are talked about, referred to, reported on, all feed into how the public perceives these things.

But where DV was regarded as a 'family matter' (and therefore not one for the police and courts to address), it wasn't reported by the press, SQ.

drjohnsonscat - your sister's remark sounds beyond absurd.
But I still don't see what is to be gained from picking apart the phrase 'tragic family situation' in this instance. Should the press have said 'another example of male infanticide'?
Believe it or not, the press to have legal duties when reporting crimes. Whatever readers/viewers choose to read into press reports, it's fairly clear that this situation is tragic and involves a family. A 'political' reading into it would be dangerous and irresponsible.

It just reminds me of the way that DV used to be thought of as a "family matter" - and thus was not taken as seriously as other types of violence. An attitude that is proving hard to erase.

I suppose, that without a proper investigation they can't really say much more
It's probably down to the fact the can't say anything else, rather than expressing an opinion
When they say it's a tragic family situation, what they are saying is that yes it's tragic and it is within the family. Ie they are not looking for anyone else
So they a implying that the father is the perpetrator, rather than putting a spin on anyone's feelings on the matter

Family annihilations are so very, very rare that describing them as a tragedy seems fair enough.

I saw something in the papers today which says that 94 women are murdered by partners every year (which chimes with the poster above saying roughly 2 a week), and also 21 men per year. Less frequent, still tragic.

I think one can deplore and regret all these cases, regardless of sex of perpetrator.

I know what op is getting at. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth to be picking it over so soon after the event.

I know exactly what you are getting at OP. Murder of children is not a 'tragic family situation'. It suggests it's just the stress and strain of being in a family and could happen to anyone. Or a man being pushed to the edge. It's not. It's murderous violence.

We don't know about this case but this seems likely from what the police are intimating to be a case of male violence against his family. No need to soft soap that. Whenever these stories come up (and it's not uncommon) my sister always says "how does that phrase go? Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned????"

But accept that we don't know what happened. Could have been something else awful. But that's not what the police are suggesting.

I think that the argument that the "tragic family situation" minimises the, erm, tragedy of this situation is misguided.
I don't think that this description implies anything about surviving members of this family.
I think it's fairly crass to read into this this situation in any 'political' way at this point and if all you know of it is what has been reported in the mass media. I also think that in doing this you undermine more serious feminism quite seriously.

I agree with Northernlurker; it appears that three children have been savagely murdered by their father; calling it a "tragic family situation" in some way minimises the horror of this and also in my view implies that the surviving member of the family should somehow share responsibility for this brutality.

I don't know about stats, but it certainly seems more men than women are family annihilators. If you google "father kills children" or "mother kills children" there's a very obvious difference in numbers. It's not pleasant reading though and leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.

From memory of cases in the news, IMO it seems that women are presented as 'evil' (e.g. Lianne Smith) while men are presented as being driven over the edge (e.g. depressed because of money worries, his wife having an affair).

Sorry that last post was in reply to mintyy.

Really?
I must have a terrible memory!

Mintyy I really don't think that the violence of men against women and children can be described as "just another topic to chew over".

Sardine - I can think of two female family annihilators who have been tried in recent months off the top of my head. The stats will obviously prove that men are far more likely to do this than women. Whatever the statistics, I hate to think of this horrific story as being just another topic for the Mumsnet Feminists to chew over.

"I?m focusing on male perpetrators because they are by far the most common, according to a recent report (discussed below, HT: Docuticker, yet again). Although there are a few female family killers, they tend to be truly psychotic or have other serious problems connecting with reality."

Is from here

It is hard to find stats - I guess because it is a relatively rare crime.

I have found a definition

""Family annihilator" is a term used to refer to someone who commits familicide, the act of killing one's own family, usually immediate members, but instances of the perpetrator targeting other relatives, such as in-laws, are not unheard of. Reasons for familicide vary, and can include:
Spite or revenge (for example, a former spouse killing their ex-partner and the children due to custody issues)
A twisted act of mercy
Mental illness or instability, such as severe depression caused by multiple real or imagined failures
Eliminating witnesses during a robbery
Out of all forms of mass murder, familicide is regarded as the most common, and often ends with the perpetrator (who is almost always male) committing suicide."

going to look for some stats now.

Agree with Dahlen. It feels disrespectful to be discussing this family at all as it is all so recent.