Great article about the context of boys failing in education

I know what the article is about, thanks. I just don't think it's a very helpful viewpoint.

The point of the article, is that boys' needs not being met in school, is a microcosm of women's needs not being met in the whole of the rest of society.

Lots of male (and female) commentators point to the idea that school is a heavily female dominated environment, fitted for females and that boys have ot somehow slot in and therefore they labour under a massive disadvantage.

None of those commentators notice that the rest of the world, is structured in a mirror image of that where women are concerned. They merely put women's lack of achievement, down to the fact that we're all thick and unmotivated and unambitious.

That's what the article is about, not about how we can ensure boys' needs are met at school. That's a different subject.

I remember being part of some teacher training thing about attainment differences between the sexes. They decided that the reason boys were failing in subjects like english was because they were being provided with unengaging topics (I suppose books about love instead of guns?? dunno). And the solution was to pepper resources with a variety of gender-engaging senarios.

For example, I taught science, so to engage girls, I might have done an experiment with lipstick and to engage boys, calculating speed with cars. I was a bit at this too.

It did get us to think about if we treated boys and girls differently. I was shocked to find that I DID treat them differently...I had higher expectations of boy behaviour and attainment than girls - I was harder on the boys - something I'm not proud of and worked hard to negate.

Maybe we are! I'm all in favour of children being seen as individuals. So I guess we're on the same side

Haven't got my glasses on... Unwise, I know :)

Sorry... Lotta.

Lotto, I think we might be misinterpreting each other?

Children need help based on ...

Completely agree lotto. Still means children need elpnbased on their individual requirements.

Eclectic, there's also lots of evidence to show that how children learn is based on the sort of activities they are encouraged to engage it at a young age. For example, boys who are given lots of construction-type toys are more likely to develop hand-eye co-ordination and spatial skills, than girls who are given different types of toys (dolls for example). I think it's mistaken to assume that boys and girls learn differently because of innate gendered abilities - many adults respond very differently to children based on their gender, due to our own social conditioning and children will respond to our expectations.

Lack of male teachers is a problem, children learn well when they can identify with the model. Also brains work differently depending on gender sometimes. I know I'll get flamed for saying that but you cannot dismiss the differences in needs between girls and boys... Peer influence... Society expectations etc.

That should say... Due to their gender.

I agree lotto, I said "individual". Stats will always be based on gender or age etc, they have to group by something. Plus boys and girls may have different learning styles ordure to their gender. Plenty of evidence to suggest so.

'my mum is a teacher and many other teacher friends have said ... that is because he is a boy.. '

Agree with you avenueone - I'm sure you're wondering what you can do to help him, not hand-wringing about how his gender may have caused the problem. Which is utter rubbish by the way. Study after study shows that the greatest predictor of educational attainment is parental expectations - if your parents are fully engaged and expect you to succeed, then you will do better than if parents are laid-back and hands-off (or can't be arsed!). So it's important that you expect him to do well at reading and writing, so that you can be pro-active in supporting him.

Spot on again Eclectic - having individual needs met is key.
Not addressing an educational need because they are aboy' or a girl' is wrong.
My DS is wonderful at maths and science not great at reading or writing - my mum is a teacher and many other teacher friends have said ... that is because he is a boy.. well I don't care if he is a boy or a girl - he needs to improve and needs more help with his reading and writting.

But EclecticShock, I don't think it's helpful to put children into the 'boy' box or the 'girl' box. Absolutely agree that children have individual learning needs but I don't think it helps anyone to stereotype based on sex e.g. boys need more time outdoors than girls do (according to a colleague of mine)

I don't think it's unhelpful to help boys and girls in whatever way they individually need. I thought the article came across as unhelpful. Bein treating equally means both sexes having their needs met at school.

Great article, thanks for the link

I work with young children and our management team have started collecting separate data about boys' attainment, because boys are doing 'worse' than girls and obviously that cannot be right I was sitting in a meeting today looking at all this data about boys and feeling very uncomfortable about it, but unable to be sure about why. Anyone got any thoughts about why treating boys as a special case is unhelpful?

Well said Eclectic... boys against girls at school is so unhelpful - have to say my 6 year old DS despite my constant opposition to it, is always trying to complete with girls. However he did say one day.. boys are stronger but girls are`better' (I took that to mean a wide variety of things but it was from his observations at school )... very interesting topic - use of internet totally unrelated IMO.

I am not thinking anything, I'm looking for evidence.

Schools are massively influenced by society. I knowloads of 13/14/14 yr old boys all obsessed by World of War craft (ok I know it us not porn but they wouldn't tell me about that) and waste hours a day on the Internet. My 15 yr old nephew stays up late at night playing and then wakes up early to play before school - funnily enough he isn't doing as well academically as he should be.

There has been a massive revolution regarding the Internet. Do you honestly think it is not effecting teenage boys? Seriously?

I mean causal evidence not a correlation.

Seriously crackfox? Is there any evidence to suggest that?

Before Internet porn was around boys used to do better than girls in exams.

I look forward to that time, messy :)