Ghandi, Aung San Su Kiy and other arseholes

ASSK is accused of deserting her family for the greater good of Burma. Apparently, like Devora's uncle, she is also not the easiest of people to get along with for those nearest and dearest.

But IMO none of this should surprise anyone. You don't get to do what she has done as a part time job, or by being easy going and vair naice.

The thread is about Gandhi's arseHoliness!

nope, still can't find any feminist critique of the stance of Aung San Suu Kyi... except this positive article msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2011/04/29/aung-san-suu-kyi-speaks-to-women-from-burma/

Isn't it 24HourPARDyPerson .

It is one of the things that gets to me as a feminist.

So many women written out of history - and so many historic men whose noble battle didn't appear to include women in any meaningful way.

Maybe research Gandhi out side of mn... Only one view agree all.

Agree Whatmeworry, some could say its egotistical to seem yourself better than people like Gandhi...

What is this?! A conspiracy of silence? Someone tell is what Aung San Su Kyi did that puts her on the Dark Side FFS??!!

I hate the name of honour killings. How disgusting that such hatred is excused by a man's 'honour'.

I also didn't know that about Gandhi prior to MN (which is shameful I admit)

Yawn re Gandhi.

If you want to look, there is enough dirt on the Buddha, Christ, Mohammad and any other latter day Saint you care to name to cast them into eternal damnation. They all have feet of clay.

So what?

You have to judge what they did achieve, not what you wanted them to achieve in glorious hindsight decades later. As Messy noted so succinctly, today's Saints will be beaten up for things we take as norms now.

That is very interesting Beachcomber . Depressing.

What has Aun san su kyi (excuse my spelling) done against women? Apart from be one? [genuinely interested]

I didn't know this sort of thing before having it brought to my attention on MN (thank you) ;

Gandhi believed Indian women who were raped lost their value as human beings. He argued that fathers could be justified in killing daughters who had been sexually assaulted for the sake of family and community honour. He moderated his views towards the end of his life. But the damage was done, and the legacy lingers in every present-day Indian press report of a rape victim who commits suicide out of "shame". Gandhi also waged a war against contraceptives, labelling Indian women who used them as whores.

Like all men who wage a doomed war with their own sexual desires, Gandhi's behaviour around females would eventually become very, very odd. He took to sleeping with naked young women, including his own great-niece, in order to "test" his commitment to celibacy. The habit caused shock and outrage among his supporters. God knows how his wife felt.

Gandhi cemented, for another generation, the attitude that women were simply creatures that could bring either pride or shame to the men who owned them. Again, the legacy lingers. India today, according to the World Economic Forum, finds itself towards the very bottom of the gender equality index. Indian social campaigners battle heroically against such patriarchy. They battle dowry deaths. They battle the honour killings of teenage lovers. They battle Aids. They battle female foeticide and the abandonment of new-born girls.

In the words of the Indian writer Khushwant Singh, "nine-tenths of the violence and unhappiness in this country derives from sexual repression". Gandhi isn't singularly to blame for India's deeply problematic attitudes to sex and female sexuality. But he fought, and succeeded, to ensure the country would never experience sexual freedom while his legend persevered. Gandhi's genius was to realise the great power of non-violent political revolution. But the violence of his thoughts towards women has contributed to countless honour killings and immeasurable suffering.

Fuck, but patriarchy sucks.

Sorry for being stupid but what did Aung San Su Kiy do that was arsehole ish ?

The title really made me laugh

Maybe some people care more about people in the abstract than in particular individuals?

We need these people. But try not to fall in love with them or have children with them.

Or work for them!

messy

The ego thing SGB mentioned. I think that may have something to do with it.

Maybe at some level you think everyone is beneath you, only a few privileged groups have the honour of being elevated to worthines? They're the exception rather than the rule to their view of humanity.

Or am I doing them an injustice. probably. Even if true, on balance it's better the ego exists.

A member of my family sacrificed himself trying to save Jews in Germany during the war. He was caught, tortured and executed.

The only member of the family with a bad word to say about him was his wife . She said to me, "Your family all think he was a hero. I know he was a stupid old man acting out some Boys Adventure fantasy, and that was more important to him than his wife and children."

So, yes I agree. I do think that people who are especially heroic, focused, achieving against the odds, are not like the rest of us. You probably do have to be pretty ruthless to achieve so much against the odds. I'm thinking of women I know who have set up fantastic pressure groups and voluntary sector organisations, who are inspirational leaders but also a feckin nightmare to work closely with.

We need these people. But try not to fall in love with them or have children with them.

We need some links for context, no?

Might I post this from drjohnsonscat on another thread. Thanks.

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/27/mohandas-gandhi-women-india

It's a bit like in 100 years time everyone will be like "wow, those mumsnet feminists were awesome. They got rid of porn, eradicated inequality, changed the world. But I can't believe they used to eat animals!"

Or something like that...

What about higgs or einstein? I'm sure they had faults... There is a neuroscience theory that your brain only has so much capacity. If you excel or spend all your resources in one area, there will be a weakness or deficit on others. Human after all.

When people are judging Gandhi, Mother Theresa, Aung San Suu Kyi
or whoever, I tend to think, what have you done that's worthwhile?

Very easy to criticise and write people off.
Everyone has weaknesses and faults.

20 facts about mother Theresa