Is feminism all about man hating?

peoplesrepublic the key point is, no matter how hard your life is as a straight white male (and some people have it hard indeed) it would be harder in those exact same circumstances if you weren't straight, white and male.

Accepting your privilege and dealing with it are requirements (to me) of being a decent human being. It's also a process. I don't think I've 'dealt with' the fact that I have white privilege. I don't think I can go "great, gave it some thought, now I am 100% pure of all the benefits of being white that this racist society gives me!" It's a process.

Uh..YEAH, you DON'T know that Chairman.

Frustrated

blackcurrents

i like that post, allthough i wasnt thinking about a BMW in regards to privilege

i get the privilege thing, but i never denyed it ( said that a number of times now) , just found it problematical as my life is probobly less privileged than most of yours ( ok, i dont know that). feel slightly better about it now blackcurrents says it the actions of a good person.

It was you! Great link blackcurrants I don't think I commented at the time, just read your link and I thought it was a neat analogy but I knew someone had posted it fairly recently.

I also think a part of accepting you have privilege is realising that there are things you won't see because you aren't part of the group without whatever privilege it is e.g. the change in tone on the phone when someone you're dealing with realises you have an accent or the binning of a CV with a forrin-sounding name - you don't have that accent, you don't have that name. How do you know you've dodged a bullet? You can't value what you can't measure, and you can't measure what you haven't experienced. You can never know how much your privilege operates so I do have some sympathy with you Meow in being unable to practically see your privilege in action. Is it perhaps a leap of cognitive empathy people make before they can confront it?

No..But it's the exact point we've all been making about your male privilege

how does 'having privilege' not automaticaly transpose into it's state of 'being privileged'?

if your born to be the lord of the manor you clearly have birth privilege, which makes you privileged

is that too simplistic?

I am a feminist and I like men in a sort of baffled way....

On a similar theme, Wheezo, it is far easier for women to get attention/sex on a night out if they want it. We can wear flashier clothes. Our bodies are admired as things of beauty.

But at the same time, we are beaten with those sticks too.

Yes I do think there is amazing privilege given to women although it is often used as a way to oppress women too.....the ability to give birth and to feed their children if they wish to. I always have a sneaky feeling that a lot of the patriarchal obsessions [only ordained MEN can bestow spiritual rebirth in whatever religious form coz y'know all that physical birthing is rubbish anyway/ legislating to control reproduction / ooh let's cull all the witches midwives] boil down to one theme: feeling left out/jealousy at this one thing they can never experience. But at the same time is anything ever so simple?

The thing about accepting your privilege is that it seems more complicated than it is.

(A) Accepting your privilege is profoundly uncomfortable. For everyone.

(b) It's also the action of a decent human being.

Whining about it - while tempting (because of point A) gets in the way of aim B. If you want to be a decent human being, then you do have to start by accepting your privilege.

And starting to check it, to hold it back, to look at it and think: "alright. There you are. Now I am going to react like a decent human being, and not like a whiny toddler who doesn't want to leave the park and go home to dinner, bath and bed. I don't want to deal with you, privilege, but while you're making me a less decent person than I want to be, I'm going to have to."

Have I already posted about white male privilege being the lowest difficulty setting on life ?

This helps get over the "I'm not privileged I don't have a BMW" reaction (that I know I've experienced) - might be useful, maybe, peoplesrepublic ?
Thing is not "I'm a straight white male therefore my life is easy."
it's "I'm a straight white male and therefore no matter how hard my life is, it would be harder still if I weren't a straight white male."

Just because you don't feel privileged, doesn't mean you aren't Chairman.

It is not about BEING privileged, it is about HAVING privilege. There's a huge difference.

Just because someone is articulate doesn't mean they're middle class.

If I worded any of that badly I'm really sorry, it's almost 6AM here and I haven't slept. (Damn insomnia!)

I hope my point came across anyway.

I'm white. I have white privilege.

Mum and I are very poor, single mum family. We don't have middle class privilege.

I'm not the ugliest girl around, I have privilege as being regarded as a 'better woman' () because of this. (Sorry to sound arrogant, just trying to explain how multifaceted types of privilege are, even between women which we know)

I have educational privilege.

I have lots of MH and some nasty physical health issues. Don't know what that falls under but I get judged on that a lot, so some sort of 'not privilege.'

There's lots of types of privilege. You can accept it without consciously acknowledging it all day long, which frankly wouldn't be healthy!

like i said upthread messy, i'm a builder

wheezo, i dont assume they all are , but most people here do seem to be quite articulate
as i'm a man it must apply to me, i just dont feel privileged, quite the opposite.

Whatme, you're kidding right? There's barely any difference between the two. You've been putting us through the wringer for a teeny tiny tweaking of language. Really... tsk tsk

The difference is in tone. One is an admission of an issue, the other is a non-admission admission.

As I said, now what?

With one, you get listened to for your second sentence.

So you acknowledge it exists so not sure how you find it problematic? You just think it doesn't apply to you?

Also why would you assume all the people on here are white middle class women?

Chairman maybe it would be useful to look at specific areas rather than a whole. For example may I ask what your occupation is?

Disregarding the "women are wonderful" bull for the patriarchal falsehood that it is, do any of the women here think there are any genuine real privileges bestowed upon women?

wheezo

yes i saw that, but i dont deny the presence of sex-privilege. i just say that i find the idea problematical

peoplesrepublic Did you catch this the first time it was posted on the FWR section (only a month or two ago)? kotaku.com/5910857/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is

NCG, not waffly at all.

I think part of the men-not-seeing-privilege problem is that initiatives that seek to favour women are far more visible than the huge constant low level discrimination against them.

So, for every science research grant that is open to women only there are 1000 boys opening up a science kit for their birthdays whilst their sisters receive a princess make up set.

Is it sniping? Or is it just advising?

Of course people don't feel comfortable accepting privilege. Why would they?

i suppose i accept that i have male privilege, it's just i inpulsively recoil from the idea because it just deosnt feel like it.

little snipe there yellow, not like you!