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Is feminism all about man hating?

460 replies

PedanticPanda · 06/07/2012 11:14

When feminism is brought up around my DP and my other friends they all say the same thing,

I agree with feminists who want equal rights for men and women, but not feminists who hate men and want women to be treated better than men.

Do these feminists actually exist? I assumed that feminism was all about equal rights etc, I thought all the man hating was a stereotype but wasn't actually true, but, most people I know seem to think this is the idea of the majority and it's the minority of feminists who want equal rights.

OP posts:
yellowraincoat · 06/07/2012 21:04

Yeah, no shit Hester.

It seems that some posters have no interest in actually discussing feminism and only pop up to have pops at people.

It's boring. Seriously.

KRITIQ · 06/07/2012 21:01

Oh, and Tei Tetua, surely I have nothing to fear from a former cannibal, right? :)

HesterBurnitall · 06/07/2012 21:01

I was following all the threads, sgb. It was an interwebz Facebook fall-out with dress ups on. 'twas shit, really.

KRITIQ · 06/07/2012 21:01

Um, if I might interrupt the bunfight to continue some of the discussion . . .

Now I gotcha Tei Tetua. You're saying that because Stoltenberg identified as a gay man, his support for feminism and criticism of masculinity wouldn't be seen as "trying for cookies" from women, particularly feminists. He would have no self-interest, so could be seen as more objective in his views. I'd never thought about it that way, but perhaps you are right - that is at least that some feminists may be less cynical about his work than they might if he were straight or bisexual.

Not meaning to turn this thread into a discussion of his writings on masculinity (although that would be nicer than an argument, but hey ho,) Stoltenberg refers only infrequently to his identity as a gay man and seems to challenge the infused-with-misogyny model of masculinity with at least some features that can be found in the behaviour and attitudes of gay and bi men as well as straight men.

In that sense, he's pointing out that male privilege isn't just predicated on gaining/maintaining control over women for one's own sexual pleasure. For example, there are some gay male fashion designers who through their words and behaviour show that they have little regard for women as a class, gain considerably from their privileged position vis a vis women, but would have no interest in sexual access to women.

Having said that, if the reader of his work is a straight man who is heterosexist, and he realises the author is a gay man, that may give him the "excuse" to dismiss everything he say with a, "what would a gay man know about masculinity," jibe.

On your other point, I think probably most "heroes" we think of haven't been perfect. Gandhi was perhaps a misogynist, but early women's rights activist Elizabeth Cady Stanton was overtly racist. It's difficult to balance up the noble deeds someone performed in one sphere knowing that in other areas, they were far, far from noble.

DowagersHump · 06/07/2012 21:00

Whatmeworry :)

HesterBurnitall · 06/07/2012 21:00

Yellow, sadly I don't see the dust settling for a while. There was no real resolution and it's left a bad taste for some.

solidgoldbrass · 06/07/2012 20:59

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Beachcomber · 06/07/2012 20:57

Right. MrGin.

Like I said, I'm not MNHQ - it seems obvious to me that quoting a deleted thread and being ambiguous about which poster one is quoting, is not cricket to put it mildly.

Whatmeworry · 06/07/2012 20:55

Also - I change my name at least once a year, as do many other posters. But I don't see you mentioning that

I didn't realise you were all at it, makes sense after last weeks' revelations - I guess that makes you all twice (or more) the person I am.....

yellowraincoat · 06/07/2012 20:54

Nice to see that peace and quiet round here lasted a good 4 or 5 days.

MrGin · 06/07/2012 20:54

Same = name

MrGin · 06/07/2012 20:53

I thought you promised not to talk to me Beachcomber.

Like I said, in relation to putting names to quotes, which I was told I did, I was careful not to do so as nobody who didn't see el threado wouldn't have known.

I was surprised when you, I think, said the same tbh.

But hey let's not talk about me any more please, but I will pop up and defend myself against slurs.

ThePan · 06/07/2012 20:52

yes, posters, men and women, often/usually just get on with doing stuff in RL because it's important to do so - you don't have to be a badge-wearer on the interweb. imho.

MrGin · 06/07/2012 20:45

dowagershump well just because you accussed me falsly of being an ' obsessive poster ' , it rather suggests you're not really reflecting reality.

A simple search would put you straight.

You see this has a part in the OP's question about why some men brand femenists as man haters. Because from a few few femenists you're the enemy from the start.

You get called, by a few hardliners, a mysoginist from the off, a potential rapist and let's throw paeodophile in there too.

Pan that good work with those courses. Well done.

HesterBurnitall · 06/07/2012 20:44

sgb I think that's an unfair characterisation of those threads and have been surprised at your take on it.

I think much of FWR comes out of rape and dv and its very existence, whatmeworry.

Beachcomber · 06/07/2012 20:43

I didn't actually mention any names in relation to quotes.

No. You didn't MrGin.

You quoted a deleted thread and hinted about names.

And your hints were rather misleading.

Hardly a pertinent or positive contribution. IMO.

ThePan · 06/07/2012 20:40

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DowagersHump · 06/07/2012 20:36

Why would I do a search on you MrGin? You've never said anything interesting that I can recall

MrGin · 06/07/2012 20:33

Just for the record I didn't actually mention any names in relation to quotes. That was someone else.

And obsessive ? Come on, do a search on me ffs.

ThePan · 06/07/2012 20:26

I don't think that's true, Whatme. Reading the threads in FWR provides the evidence to maintain otherwise. Those issues, yes, are the most immediately emotive and attract a busier footprint, but there are/have been masses of threads about lots of other stuff.

DowagersHump · 06/07/2012 20:25

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Beachcomber · 06/07/2012 20:24

That was in reply to the sock puppet post. Not the mocking of Godwin's law/feminists.

Beachcomber · 06/07/2012 20:23

Really Whatmeworry?

Are you sure?

Whatmeworry · 06/07/2012 20:21

blistory it's relevant to the subject and OP of this thread. Which forgive me if I'm wrong isn't about rape a DV.

Somehow all MN Feminist debates get dragged into the Rape/DV mire sooner or later, its a sort of MN Feminist Godwins Law.

solidgoldbrass · 06/07/2012 20:17

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