Is feminism all about man hating?

OK, my post deletion was a mistake ('fat fingers') and it is back up. All good.

Yes, I think they should- email the attackee, I mean. Or post on the thread asking the attackee what they want to happen. It's not as if an offensive post on mumsnet is actually going to do any damage to the person concerned, is it? Leaving it there would generally do more damage to the person who posted it than to the "victim"

I do think 'deleted for referencing a deleted post' would be good though.

But how would that work, seeker . Would MNHQ have to email the attackee and wait til he or she responded before deleting the post? Would they delete the post pending the response and then reinstate - with a comment?

I think we need a definition of "personal attack".

I also think that a personal attack should only be de ted if the atackee wants it deleted.

math you haven't learned the new rules! (same as the old rules): 'unhelpful' language is okay if you're certain posters!
The feminists are fair game for smear tactics, they're jut not allowed to get irritated or snarky in response to endless needling.

I like Elephants' mental image of the effort exerted here. I am picturing effort spent in this particular area as a hamster on a wheel, it is oddly calming :)

'I don't know of any spaces in which men get together in order to discuss how they are institutionally oppressed by women or to discuss global female violence against men, or to discuss their lower status due to their biological sex. Or to discuss matriarchal society and how it harms and disadvantages men.'

Have you ever seen 'Fathers' Rights' sites?

Whatmeworry -- could you try to consider how unhelpful using a term like MNRadFems might be?

Can you see any irony in using a term like that in a post where you bewail feminist PCism?

No, thank YOU Kim :)

Sorry I didn't reply back, life got in the way! Will soon.

namechangeguy, sorry but I don't really understand your post.

I don't have an issue with you - perhaps we have had a run in on MN and you think I'm carrying it onto this thread? I honestly don't remember if we have and I'm replying to you here on the basis of this thread alone.

stop it, i'm hungry!

wheezo, the conversation has moved on since you posted this so if you dont mind me dragging it back a page or two, you said:-

"I always remember walking home late (probably not that late but at 9/10 years old it was dark so felt late) with my dad and he did this bizarre thing where as we approached a lone woman walking on the same street he immediately crossed over and speeded up - and being confused as to why we were doing this on a pretty much deserted street I asked him why and he explained that it was force of habit - if he ever found himself alone on a street at night with a woman in front of him that is what he did - because he didn't want the woman to be concerned a man was following her and crossing over put distance between them and speeding up put him in front of her within her line of vision so it was the best way (he thought) to remove that fear. At the time I didn't really understand but now I think how awesome of my dad to understand that to any woman he is Schroedinger's rapist and instead of getting all sulky over it he tried to adjust his behaviour practically to ensure he reduced anxiety of women who didn't know him"

i have allways done this ( no i'm not looking for a blue peter badge) , especialy when i'm with a few guys i will try to usher them accross the street, once in a car full of guys the woman infront might have thought we were following her so i took a different route.

but actually i have never seen any of these little acts as being feminist, women are, frightend of men, men they dont know anyway, i would like a world where women can walk the streets without a fear of all men just because they are strangers.

women look away when you meet their gaze in a way that other men dont. i find it terribly sad that one sex's default position is fear of the other sex, it just seems crazy to me.

once, late at night and in a new town a bit pissed and looking for a party i had been invited to asked a woman if she knew where a certain street was, before i had utterd two words she was shreiking and waving her arms about, i stepped back confused and shocked at this reaction, she hurried off allmost in tears leaving me wondering what the hell had just happend.
i felt bad then for the rest of the night.

Are you sure you didn't give them to my nan Elephants? I swear she makes rock buns with actual rocks in them sometimes. Maybe she's more feminist than I thought.

OK I know where I am now. I'm a lot more radical than I thought I was

Ooh, could I have recipes for evil feminist cookies and bad feminist buns please?

oooh they sound amazing. It's 10am and I could really do with an evil feminist sticky bun.

If I lived near a Greggs I'd totally be heading there right now, for a sticky bun. Happily for everyone, there are none in the continental US. So we're all saved!

I made buns the other day put razors in them and handed them out to men, I did Blackcurrants. Bad, feminist buns they were. With vanilla butter icing.

Just hopping over from the AIBU thread to see where I stand on the trans issue

Yeah, I think you're right, Elephants. I never engaged on the trans issue before, and I'm not planning on it now. But the idea that women-only spaces are anti-men just makes me guffaw. I must run into the bra fitting part of Bravissimo next time I'm in there and yell "WHY DO YOU GIVE FEMINISM SUCH A BAD NAME?"

Anyway, I think we've got pretty far answering the OP and I hope it helps her. And I've enjoyed our discussion. And now I'm going to apply for a bunch of jobs and continue giving feminism a bad name. Possibly I'll make cookies! Evil feminist cookies! for my husband and son, whom I am of course anti.

Good. It was this endless dwelling on one subject that drove me off this board for ages. I don't think anyone has got anything to gain by trying to persuade WhatMe, You might as well get on a conveyor belt and go for a run, tire yourself out another way.

Sorry if I sound narky, I'm not really, just tired of our feminist spaces being brought back to a single issue (coincidentally one that is about how bad and naughty feminists are, rather than anythingwe've achieved or want to achieve) over and over again.

Neither Blackcurrants

I tried sooo hard not to engage. . . . I fell victim to the stirring.

I won't again!

Sigh.

I have a right to spaces that discuss my own issues as a born female.

MtF have the right to discuss their discrimination.

Why must the two overlap every single time?

And thanks to Kim, I've come to the conclusion I have no issue with trans. I still believe this though. Different issues, different discrimination.

So tired of this argument. Throwing trans into this particular topic seems like a way to make feminists look hateful.

Is this debate really happening AGAIN? Can't we just say "no thanks" to having it?