So if you're daughter/son started waxing ..

what do you mean blue velvet trousers are bad taste!

it's debatable whether 'femminised' is the right word and yes, trending fashions in the days of 'rob roy' were only for the wealthy. i still have the feeling there was something feminine, or dainty about those fashions.

i wore a kilt when i got married!

INB4? did men wear corsets?

Your description of the 1700s is applicable to the court of Louis XV. Hardly an indicator of what the masses were wearing. Gender and dress were clearly defined, a working-class women wearing a waistcoat and breeches in public would be a bizarre sight. See below for modern contrast.

Cravats are miltary in origin, they are not and never were feminine garb. Trousers are a traditionally male garment, regardless of the owner's bad taste. That women now wear trousers and 'trouser suits' demonstrates the feminization of formerly masculine fashion. This kind of clothing is highly unlikely to attract 'incorrect dress' comment, in fact in many settings it is the expected attire.

The presence of the 'gender bending' New Romantic subculture's presence in the 80's demonstrates my point about the increasingly widespread acceptability and progression into poorly-defined gender behaviour and dress; they'd never have existed (survived?) in the early 20th century.

Yes, trends in human social behaviour are non-linear, but they nevertheless exist. In this case constant pressure to break down the social differences between men and women, and the disposable income which allows this to occur, will result in more homogenized behaviour and traits, of which fashion is just one aspect.

INB4 'but men use to wear corsets!' :facepalm:

helxi

i think mens fashion becomes feminised periodicaly, in the 1700's it was all hankies and cuffes with elaborate bows, in the late 60's we had cravates and blue velvet trousers. and then the new romantics of the mid 80's did their thing.

MsCellophane
"My sons friends all shave their armpits now, not sure where that comes from..."

As boys become increasingly feminized you can expect them to adopt formerly 'women only' fashions and traits, e.g. wearing make up, waxing, shaving, fake tanning, adopting dieting fads, etc. Things that 30 years ago would generally have gotten a boy beaten, ridiculed and ostracized.

i am blonde and not very hairy... when i was a teen i didn't understand what a 'bikini line' was beause my hair did not peek out of my swimsuit and wouldn't have unless i wore a seriously skimpy string thong (which i wouldn't have, was more a speedo girl )
i veet my legs and underarms about once a week and that's plenty.
i started by stealing my mum's immac at about age 13ish... but that was always just for underarms as they were visible and never occured to me to do my pubic area..

i honestly have NO IDEA how i will approach this with any DD of mine, but given i haven't got any DDs yet it will be at least 2024 (or maybe never) before i have to deal with it and the way things are going everybody will be laser-hair-removed over every inch of their body by then...

When I was 13 I started waxing my legs due to 'suddenly noticing.'

At 18 I started (TMI) waxing the majority of nethers due to persistent infections.

I wear 'slutty' undies because they make me feel confident. Lame, I know.

I shaved for about a year when I first had pubic hair because I was scared and embarrassed about it. We shouldn't always suppose a young girl shaving is about sexualisation and / or peer pressure.

I guess I make the assumption that being bald is related to sexual satisfaction based on my own and my generations experience... Seems different now... More a fashion, peer pressure thing as discussed.

What all the way back in the 90's :), not as far as I can remember. It's interesting though that it's a pressure put upon women by other women and media. Or do you think it has anything to do with what boys expected? I wasn't in my case, didn't have sex till 17... Just did it to fit in and because my mum did I suppose.

Yep, most men seem to these days, they will do anything if it makes their nob look bigger - who are they kidding lol !!

I think it's media and peer pressure.

Seems a lot young to me. I think the backlash the op is getting on here is due to the fact that the point of Brazillians is to make it nicer for the man when giving oral pleasure, so it does seem odd to do at 11 ?? As you said lastnerve, you acted on advice of older girls, I doubt that girls of your own age in your generation would of suggested it. They may have been having a laugh at you doing it behind your back? Just because you did it so young, does not mean every girl of your generation was doing it at that age, and I doubt they were. You asked about it though, so here is just another opinion that you probably won't agree with.

Many really young boys and girls shave due to embarassment of going through puberty. Nothing to do with sexulisation. I would say around 14-16, it's more to do with what they think they should be doing and what everyone else is doing.

As the mother of 3 young women and one young man (18-23) so far the younger two girls just tend armpits and legs but not all the time. The older one removes everything all the time and my son shaves underarms and pubic area

The oldest one says she does it as once a month, she prefers it to be gone and if you leave it a few days, it itches but not if you do it daily

They have grown up with me being natural, so I haven't influenced her

What's very interesting, is the amount of men and young boys who are shaving. My sons friends all shave their armpits now, not sure where that comes from and all men I've been with in the last few years (and there have been a fair amount) all shave their pubic area. I haven't seen a hairy single man for a very long time

When I was a teenager in the 90's, we only tied up bikini line for swimming. I did shave legs and arm pits though. I guess it's more of a fashion statement now and pressure from peers than actually doing it for sexual reasons? Have to say, I am surprised...but I guess Hollywood and brazillians are all over the media now, they weren't that popular when I was at school and I certainly don't remember them being in media much...even Cosmo.

I'd leave them to it - it's their body and since shaving or waxing causes no permanent damage it's really up to them whether they want to do it or not.

What made you think it was necessary at 11, op?

My 12yo has decided that for aesthetic reasons she will shave her armpits three times a year before dance shows/ competitions. The rest of the time she doesn't, despite understanding that culturally, this is the expectation. I am sure we will discuss it again due to peer pressure etc.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't a troll, tbh, but mostly folk who pop on here to ask about children and shaving and sex get shown the door.

At 11, if it was my child (note, child) I would be heavily discussing her motivations, as it is not in any way appropriate, nor necessary. I would be extremely concerned. Almost as concerned as I am about adult posters who pop on to ask about brazilians for an 11yo.

I'd be really quite worried about an 11yo who decided to do that - how many of them have enough pubic hair to feel the need anyway? And who do they think is going to see it? Fair enough to neaten up for swimming if that's an issue.

I don't think I can contemplate it as a "feminism" issue without seeing it as a child protection issue first - what influences has an 11yo been seeing/hearing about to think that's what she should do?

Fully? Surely that's not appropriate until 16? Isn't a tidy up enough ? Do girls really do that now at 11? I'm obviously a bit out of touch . Only have a boy.