"Always Dress to Impress"

Yes people can normally tell whether others have make-up on.

I worked / work in a quite traditional sector.
I have an interview next week and will basically be wearing pinstipe, heels and lipstick.
For my particular sector that is the expectation.

Like I say in my usual life, and day to day working life, I never wear make-up. I am not defending it being part of the "uniform" - far from it - but in my sector that is the "uniform" and that is just a fact.

When i was signing on i came across this all the time. Usually on those ridiculous waste of time courses that they send you on.
I got told that i MUST wear make up and dress smartly for interview and to make sure i remembered to shower and use deodarant and perfume. (happy to do this anyway but i still didnt want to be patronized.) of course i shower etc FFS. (though i think this could be more to do with the discrimination against the unemployed) they treat you as if you are living up to the stereotype of the great unwashed.
The unemployed men on the course just got told to shower and wear a suit.

Do you really think people can tell SardineQueen?
Unless someone looks particularly lovely/overdone/a bit peaky I genuinely can't tell whether people are wearing make up or not.

Fwiw I went to my last interview in a nice suit, flat brogues, no make up and hair in a neat pony tail and felt completely comfortable and adequately dressed.

I had to go into uni straight afterwards and one of my course-mates said that I looked really nice but still like myself. I really do think feeling comfortable in your own skin helps a lot in that kind of situation.
If I'd gone in in for e.g., a pin stripe suit, heels and lipstick I would have felt ridiculous. Whereas, I have a good friend and that is her kind of look for work and she looks great.

In my working life for interviews and client meetings, make-up is certainly part of the costume. Not wearing any in those situations would be noticed I think, as a man with a crumpled shirt would be noticed. Of course if you are good at your job / charismatic it won't matter. But still, people notice. IMO and IME anyway.

Of course in life you must make your own decisions!

In the last couple of years I have read several women quoted saying that at least a small amount of make-up is expected as part of female business attire. And saying it as if this is a self evident, universally recognised truth.

I was, and remain, completely astounded about that. Why wasn't I invited to the meeting where that was decided? I think it's bad enough that women seem generally expected to look their best at all times and that society has decided that is impossible without make up. But I had literally no idea that make up is also an essential of looking smart! Like the female equivalent of a tie.

I will adhere to the same general rules as guys have to, and no more (unless I want to for my own sake). Ie I will not wear trainers, jeans, etc where it would be inappropriate. But I haven't used a drop of make up in years and I'm not about to start now for anyone. Ditto re heels.

Eldritch yes looking clean and having unripped clothing is worthwhile. It demonstrates a bit of respect for whoever you're meeting.

But this article goes way, way beyond that... it's suggesting that people (women in particular) should look glamorous or pretty at all times.

Her mother was the late Josephine Premice, a noted black actress and singer who crossed racial divides in her industry. "My mother, the chicest woman I've ever known, and her friends used sartorial splendor as their armor in an unjust and oppressive world," she said. Barrier-breaking black performers couldn't control their access to roles, but they could express artistic genius through unrelenting elegance. "Their motto could well have been 'We shall overcome, in couture,' " said Ms. Fales-Hill. "Though I never knew a 16th of the hardships my mother experienced, like many black women, I was raised to use elegance as a pre-emptive strike: Do not give people the opportunity to dismiss you or mistreat you by looking less than your best. That means everywhere, even to the grocery store."

I totally get this.

Also, how much effort you make is cultural, for both sexes. In many other countries, while being fashionable is less important than here, being clean and tidy is very much more important for men and women. I spent my early childhood overseas and remember being surprised at how slovenly many British people are when we moved here.

It is a minefield. What shoes especially.

I think even men don't necessarily like attractive women. Some might, many many feel threatened though.

Sorry but I've always used this term to my three sons re interviews (even for voluntary stuff) and more lately first dates.

I think that's the point though.

male business dress is fairly straightforward - smart suit that fits, shirt ironed and tie that doesn't look mad. Not homer simpson socks. Short back and sides.

Job done. the interviewer will not register the attire past "smart" and will concentrate on the person.

female business dress. minefield. makeup? how much? heels? how high? frilly shirt or plain shirt? skirt above the knee or below? trousers? straight or bootleg or skinnier? Hair. Difficult. Up or down? Curly or straight? Bun or plait? and so on. Because judgements will be made, on appearance, which will be taken into account alongside questions addressed to the person.

I want to look friendly and approachable, not 'impressive'.

I think it can go both ways. Attractive - bimbo, bitch, don't want her working with me. Unattractive/couldn't care less - lazy, don't want to look at her haggard face.

Those of us who are not currently up for meeting The Man Of Our Dreams (TM) would be best advised to remain as scruffy as possible, then, just in case the bugger sees us by the fruit 'n' veg aisle and gets ideas

True of many high end stores.....Abercrombie and Fitch etc.

garlic how true about the harrods staff, a friend of mine had an interview there a few years back which consisted of the exact line "you're thin and pretty, you have the job". Awful.

Fair comment, yellow. I was projecting my own experience and my friends'. We used to really sweat it, all the time, every day. Vanity is not a sin! Hope I didn't seem to be saying it was.

I don't think we need to be disparaging about women who are interested in their looks and want to wear lipstick and stuff - just because you spend a while getting dressed doesn't mean you're insecure.

I love clothes, too skint to afford a lot of stuff but I'd hate to think that other women were thinking how insecure I must be because I've made an effort.

Saying that, I do go out very often without make-up and stuff.

OTOH there is a woman who is always in preposterous clothing - always really overdone with massive great heels on and clothes very obviously chosen with extreme care yet she always looks like she is not very comfortable in them, and she always looks miserable as sin.

Someone like her wrote that article

You see i know a mum who does the school run and always looks amazing, and she is lovely and my friend and i know she just likes to get dressed up and feel good and look good.

Really doesn't bother me.

What would bother me would be if she started on at me, saying that i should make "an effort" too. Which she doesn't, of course. That is, however, what this article is doing.

When I see a woman looking that good, Greythorne, unless it's actually her job I tend to assume she's insecure. It's an effort to control her interactions with a frightening world. Tends to backfire somewhat, ime, but is the reason why so many call it "war paint".

What a miserable article.

I feel actively sorry for someone who wouldn't even step out of their front door to post a letter unless they were fully done up.

I like to look smart and well-presented but I would hate to think my entire worth was being decided on that alone.

I see a mum at the schoolmgates and she is always immaculate (think, immaculate red suede ballet pumps, black slim capri pants, pressed white shirt, red Hermès scarf (knotted), beige belted trench coat, LV tote, big sunglasses, full make up, red Alice band in hair). I know she is a SAHM so it's not a work obligation and whilst part of me thinks, good for her, on a few occasions, without being bitchy, I have subconsciously found myself thinking, "she must have a very empty life to find time to get all dolled up like that."