that 'chemical imbalance' myth

I do have a MH team out here. I've seen them a few times and they decided that being here (in Germany) is having an effect on my MH however, at my last appointment I was discharged because they said even though I have depression and anxiety I'm not classed as psychiatrically ill so they dont have treatment for me except Prozac.

They have chosen to ignore that my depression is only made worse by being here, it is not the cause.

I found CBT quite good for my anxiety but not so much for depression. I think I've come to realise that it's not down to one life event or situation but many different things over time that have piled on top of me.

I've been told by my cousellors and GP's that its all caused by a chemical inbalance/thinking errors/my personality etc.

No one has ever suggested I should explore further why I might be the way I am, just that it is some how my fault.

hello miserybusiness - im not sure that from the feminist perspective talk therapies like CBT or even psychodynamic are any better than drugs and biochemical explanations. In many ways, it is even more pernicious, because rather than acknowledging there are often very good reasons for women to experience suffering in our society, they seek to displace the problem onto women and blame faulty thinking! It is how you think about the situation which is claimed to be at fault, not the situation! Incidentally, CBT which is often helpful for depression, does not actually change negative thinking - people who have CBT have just as many negative thinking patterns before as they do afterwards! So we don't quite know how that 'works' either...

hello wickety pitch you are correct that most serotonin is not found in the brain (but in fact the gastrointestinal tract), but are incorrect to say serotonin is manafacutured in the brain. blood serotonin is produced in platelets, so tell us nothing about brain levels, and serotonin in the gut is produced in neurons in the enteric nervous system which controls gut motility - again outside the brain. You can measure levels of serotonin metabolites in spinal fluid, which gives you a better estimate of levels in the brain, but again only a proxy. The association with depression, however is weak. The most replicated finding is that low levels of 5-HIAA (the breakdown product of serotonin) is associated with impulsivity, and not depression.

hello alameda i do think more research into therapeutic effects of masturbation is urgently needed and have advocated for making vibrators available on prescription and tested like medical devices so they would have to undergo head-to-head comparisons so you could find out which ones work best and for whom! but i digress...

hello racing i am glad to hear you benefited from citalopram. I never said anything against psychotropic medication in my post, indeed I do prescribe them. It is always a joy to see people spring to life after being in the depths of depressive despair. Sadly, this does occur often enough. I am not against the judicious prescription of medication for depression and other psychical symptoms, but it just isn't the case that 99.99% of the time antidepressants are correcting a 'cause' of depression. We don't really understand fully the different levels at which they might help. If depression were really due to low serotonin then antidepressants wouldn't work anyway! as you need to have serotonin for them to work.

Mooncup said: if nearly half a population are obese or depressed then doesn't it make sense to look at why this is, rather than just doling out the drugs?

That is such a wise idea. Why are we not governed by people who ask questions like this, or care about the answers?

Misery, so sorry to hear you are down and unsupported. People don't understand you can't snap out of it. Do the forces not have their own MH team? I'd have thought isolation and depression could be rife among forces wives, due to the incredible constant stresses you are under.

Sorry to hear that Misery - I hope you get some decent help soon. It must be hard that your family are so unsympathetic. There is a good Mental Health section on MN with some nice supportive people on it if you'd find that helpful.

I do wonder (and this is 100% speculation) if depression etc on a social level should be seen in a similar way to obesity, diabetes etc. There will always be a small minority of people who have a genetic predisposition to obesity or depression, perhaps because they don't generate enough of the relevant hormone or whatever. It may be possible to invent a drug that supplies the missing hormone and solves their problem, and that's great.

However, if nearly half a population are obese or depressed then doesn't it make sense to look at why this is, rather than just doling out the drugs?

(And similarly - if nearly half the population are obese or depressed then blaming individuals for eating too much cake or not exercising enough or feeling sorry for themselves makes no sense at all. It's a wider issue.)

Hully - I want to start some sort of talking therapy. The only one I've been offered on the nhs is CBT which is quite helpful but doesn't quite get to the route of things.

Sorry for the slight hijack just very interesting subject. I would love to understand why I am the way I am.

canard, it's good to hear a response from you. But how do you explain people like me who had severe depression - really debilitating: couldn't hold down jobs, homes, relationships, for years, who then are given an SSRI and everything swiftly falls into place because my energy is no longer permanently channelled into depressive, paranoid thoughts? Now I have so much clear thinking time - I get stuff done. My income has doubled, my relationships have blossomed, my home is no longer a tip (or if it is, I don't procrastinate on putting it right. In fact the easing off of acute procrastination is one of the best things the SSRI had done for me.)
For twenty years I felt like a tiny person fighting a monster, so I had some sense of the normal life I wanted to lead, but never did because staving off depression was so physically and emotionally exhausting and mentally time consuming. That time has been given to me, and to my DH and my children. i truly feel I have got my real life back, the one the real me always intended to live, when not trampled down by depression.

For me drugs alone have transformed my world. I owe them so much. I feel so indebted to whoever invented citalopram. (I know it is useless for some people - it's not a wonder drug for everyone but really is for me. A friend took it and it had awful side effects.) Our chemical make up is so complex - as unique maybe as our DNA. But no amount of therapy could have cured me because no external fault existed. I just lacked something - a chemical I presume, to function normally - just as diabetics lack insulin. Now it's provided I feel alive and glad every day. So please don't trash the MH drug industry. It needs funding and research but not dismissal.

Misery, my friend is currently in psychotherapy and finding it extrememly helpful. She too had a very traumatic childhood

I was diagnosed bipolar in 2010 and it is considered a "working diagnosis" on my notes. Mainly as I have never been hospitalized and my "manic".episodes, whilst very destructive have not been witnessed by doctors.

That is fine by me. Lithium keeps me well, that is all I know. I don't like it, but it is better than the alternative. It is also used to treat long term depression.

Well, my DH is in the military so for the last 4 years we've moved around and away from family and friends so I dont really have many people around me.

DH isn't really in touch with his emotions, in fact he doesn't understand some emotions at all. He does try really hard to understand but he doesn't and he finds it really difficult to talk about.

My Mum just gets frustrated and says things like, ''you really need to snap out of it'' and ''pull yourself together'' so I try my best not to talk to her.

Dad is useless.

Like I said, I dont really see any friends anymore.

This thread has given me a great deal to think about.

I have recently been told to go on anti depressents because I have a chemical inbalance.

I know I am depressed and anxious because of life events. I know that I am very self critical because of my parents. I know I feel trapped because I have no one to talk to and no one that understands me.

I haven't started taking them nor accepted the offer because I wanted to try and make life changes first. I really dont like the idea of my depression being out of my control, that the only way to get better is through drugs iyswim?

I don't think if you are manic, you know you are. Although everyone else can see there is somnething wrong

Wickety - I obviously have no idea if you are bipolar or not. But thsi sounds like a seriously incompetent "diagnosis". The diagnosis my relative had involved spending 3.5 hours with a psychiatrist completing WHo diagnositic pro formas and examining her history of psychotic manic episodes and depression. And psychiatrists still rightly questioned it for the first few years to check she had not been misdiagnosed.

it could be that the sufferer had low seratonin as a result of life problems, rather than as a naturally occurring chemical imbalance.

That could be why menay people living with chronic pain become depressed then.

Yes stimiatising, except amongst idiots who say things like - I feel a bit bipolar today. And yes I have heard this.

I looked afte my relative when she was psychotic and severely depressed. I think lots of people have real no understanding of what manic episodes actually mean