Fifty Shades

"they have to take care of them, protect them...etc hurting them would actually be against the agreement"

Not hurt them huh? Well doesn't that sound sweet and romantic and cuddly. In fact, it doesn't sound like sadism at all.

is that the answer to what you were asking?

Not really, chairman, let me rephrase the question - what is it about hurting and dominating women that turns you on?

Does your DW have a good marriage too? Does she know about your online 'games'?

i think it's worth mentioning ( if no one else has yet, i'm not sure) that part of 50 shades success is down to the E book reader. no one knows what your reading on the bus.

Betty - Shades of Grey by Jasper Fforde is amazing! A seriously fabulous book!.

For an in depth look at the issues of rape culture within the BDSM community, by someone familiar with BDSM, this is an interesting read (Trigger Warning: rape, abuse) www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2012/06/20/20993/

To summarise the post for those who don't want to read it, there are issues in the BDSM community and the community is too keen at covering things up for the "general good".

'I know someone who is collared and in a D/s relationship, she and her fiance have been together for over 10 years.. and really, in that relationship is actually the sub who has all the power, because the Dom can only do things with their consent.

The minute a sub declares its off limits, it stops, no question, because not to do so would violate the terms of the agreement because while a sub agree's to certain things, the Dom also has to agree to put the subs needs first.'

I do not understand this. How does the sub have all the power? The dom can only do thingss with the sub's consent, but surely the sub can only have things done to them with the dom's consent. So If the sub decides they want the dom to cut the sub's hair into a new style with a pair of garden secateurs, presumably the dom could then say that actually they have no sexual interest in either hairdressing or gardening tools, and have a bit of a phobia of sharp objects, so will not be participating in such an event.

Or does the dom have to do whatever the sub wants, in order to put the 'sub's needs first' in which case that is not really consent either?

I can't see how the underlying consent concerning specific acts is different from any other type of non BDSM sexual behaviour. The issue is surely why people want to engage in behaviour that involves violence, power or the sexualisation of consent itself, and if those acts are more or less prone to creation and/or perpetuation of abusive relationships, or cause psychological developments that are damaging to the people in the relationship or to the way they relate to the wider world.

hello again pubes
well it's very little for me in RL
online i play.
like i said, i have a good marrage, i'm not 'trapped' in a vanilla marage, i dont feel like i'm missing out, if, for whatever reason i found myself single i would go and check out the clubs in Rl, but as my mild compulsion is satisfied online, i wouldnt consider jepardising my marrage for that.

is that the answer to what you were asking?

I've got experience of BDSM. Zero safe words, used as a form of abuse, legitimated by being able to show me pictures of it happening, books about it, and saying 'but look at those people over there doing it, it must be fine'. It's great Wonderful it's being even more mainstreamed.

I am also a rape victim. I have read the first one. I would say, if you think there is any chance this might trigger something for you, why take the risk?

It didn't for me but the scenarios described were so far away from my own experience, the two things almost didn't connect in my mind iykwim

But that might not be the case for you so I wouldn't risk it if I were you

I can assure you that in 6 weeks it will be all "Fifty Shaes of What?" and you'll be glad you didn't

Hope you're OK OP xx

I'm not really talking about someone who is a dom being chucked out (never seen it happen) more about sleazy guys who touch you without asking - mercifully FAR rarer on the scene than normal clubs. I think they're chucked out and it's made very clear that that sort of behaviour is not on - something that wouldn't happen in a normal club. I doubt they pay heed, but at least it's made clear it's not ok.

I think as soon as you enter into that scene it becomes very clear how respectful it is and I hope that that would give anyone who thinks it's all just about whacking women about pause.

Who knows though? Of course it's a very thorny issue.

All I know is I've been treated with more respect on the BDSM scene than I am in normal day to day life. I feel much safer. I don't feel like I'm treated as a woman, but as a person.

you ok AF?

Chairman of course I remembered you, I was just confused by this - it's about very little for me when obviously it's more than that. Does your DW know? You've made contradictory statements about that.

What is it about for you? I'm genuinely curious.

my skin is crawling right off my bones right now, and it's not as a result of considering consensual BDSM

And when they get chucked out of the club where do they go? Will they stop pretending to be a dom when they step outside? What about all the people who aren't on the scene? The ones who are just trying things out, maybe because they've read shades of shite or story of o or whatever and fancy giving it a go? I'm sure you, sgb and yellow, are very responsible but I do think there are added dangers with BDSM as a whole.

You don't know that the person you are sleeping with for the first time wasn't abused and isn't acting something out, of course, but unless you're doing BDSM you're not going to be tying them up and hitting them or whatever. I think there's a difference.

I'm not having a pop at people's personal choices - I absolutely cannot take the moral high ground on this one but I find the whole thing politically bothersome.

It's pretty easy to see when a male dom is treating someone in a disrespectful manner eg not checking what is ok first, not stopping when asked, going around letching on women -these are the type that get chucked out of clubs sharpish in my experience and would get pretty short shrift.

Of course there are going to be abusive people, but how do you know the person you're having sex with for the first time wasn't abused as a child and is now acting out that abuse?

Yes, there are abusive people on the BDSM scene, but there are abusive people everywhere. But there's also a lot of discussion on and around the BDSM scene about what is abusive (and who is abusive) and how to spot someone who might be dangerous. Plenty of people, for instance, make a fair bit of noise about the type of 'male dom' who basically behaves as though he's found a justification for mistreating women, and how this isn't acceptable.

well pubes, there is no way to be sure that no one is being coerced, but like i said a few posts back, some vunerable people may well fall through the net.

and yes, that was me.....bit mift you diddnt remember me !

DV is generally pretty well concealed. What goes on in clubs is only a teeny tiny part of it. Those people go home. Even in clubs, can you really be sure how consenting it all is? How can you know that nobody there has been coerced into what they're doing?

Wasn't it you who hangs out playing story of O games with strangers on the internet? Big apologies if I'm thinking of somebody else.

well pubes, of course it happens outside of BDSM but thats DV.

if an abusive relationship was going on within the lifestyle, at the clubs and so on it would have to be pretty well conceald.

it's about very little for me i'm in a totaly vanilla marrage, but i'm not conplaining, i have a good marrage.

i'm sure most people in the lifestyle would see a non-consentual abusive relationship for what it is.

Really? That frequently doesn't happen outside of BDSM.

I'm probably going to regret asking this, but what's it about for you, chairman?

Ladies can I point you in the direction of Jasper Fforde's Shades of Grey. A much better read

as for the endorphin rush, to my mind that just hightens the experience, the root has nothing to do with stuff akin to roller-costers and horror movies

i agree, some vunerable women will fall through that net, and there are some real sadists out there.

people within BDSM tend to spend alot of time hanging out and talking about safe words, the nature of consent, safety ETC, but of course they do, it;s far too dangerous not to!

i'm sure most people in the lifestyle would see a non-consentual abusive relationship for what it is.

i liked that link where the safe word was 'do it to julia', brilliant! why did i never think of that.

EBAL, I can tell you for certain that that isn't true of everybody who's into BDSM and actually I doubt it's true of most. I dare say it's true of some though, which is a horrible thought, especially for those who 'play' with people they don't necessarily know that well. You could just be abusing somebody all over again, and yes, Bertie, there's a lot of talk on the BDSM scene about how they're all very good at weeding out abusers but I'm not so sure. As long as people stick to limits and safewords, who knows what's going on in their heads?

SGB and yellow, yes to the endorphin rush effect. It's definitely a kick, but I don't think that's all that's going on. It doesn't explain the whole D/s dynamic, the control and humiliation aspects, the 'power exchange' thing. If it was just the endorphin rush, I think there'd be lots of tops and bottoms, without the need to dominate or submit to anybody.