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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Fifty Shades

159 replies

neveravictim · 23/06/2012 22:09

I know this has been talked about alot but just wanted some advice. As a victim of rape the idea of submissive sex makes me feel very uncomfortable but all my friends are reading this. So do you think it is a book I should read too. Is t really about women's empowerment? Have nc btw. Thank you x

OP posts:
EchoBitch · 26/06/2012 23:28

Whatever turns you on yellow.

It all seems a bit tragic to me.

yellowraincoat · 26/06/2012 23:26

That's a pretty damning thing to say about something that people consensually enjoy, EchoBitch.

I seriously don't care what my parents wish for me, my sex life is, obviously, none of their business. Would be a bit weird if it was.

EchoBitch · 26/06/2012 23:25

BDSM.

Bondage,Dominance,sado masochism.

Fucking lovely.

Just what you'd wish for your daughter. Hmm

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 26/06/2012 22:22

SGB - Did you read the links upthread about people in BDSM community talking about the prevalence of abuse and consent being ignored and how the BDSM community cover this up?

AnyFucker · 26/06/2012 22:19

don't be silly, sgb, you are on my fb, FFS

I didn't even bother to say I wasn't talking about you, because I think it's quite clear I am not

solidgoldbrass · 26/06/2012 22:15

AF: I have been on MN for years, quite possibly even longer than you have. While it's up to you whether you consider me creepy or not, I don't think that using other websites means I am Not Allowed to use MN.

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 26/06/2012 22:07

Totally agree AF!!!

AnyFucker · 26/06/2012 21:59

one of the problems that I personally see with the "mainstreaming of BDSM" is that creepy people desert their "specialist" sites to come and hang around mainstream sites like Mumsnet

and nobody bats a fucking eyelid

thechairmanmeow · 26/06/2012 21:27

agreed SGB

ok pubes, talk to you soon.

solidgoldbrass · 26/06/2012 20:50

The biggest problem with the 'mainstreaming' of the scene is that people who were not, perhaps, initially or instinctively inclined towards it are getting the idea that all BDSM is about men controlling/topping/Doing It To women, when the BDSM scene I started out in was far more pansexual, far more weighted towards female domination (Yeah yeah, you might percieve that as still pandering to the patriarchy but it's not the woman getting nipple clamps and crop marks on her arse in a femdom situation, is it?). I am still generally inclined to think that there's less risk of getting into an abuse situation if you get involved in the public/social side of the BDSM scene because everyone talks so much about consent, attitudes, ethics. Whereas women who are given little or no access to discussions about sexuality put up with the most appalling treatment in outwardly conventional, traditional marriages, because their abusers tell them that whatever horror they are inflicting on their wives is 'normal'. ONe of the best things about MN is the amount of times posters have come on here describing unacceptable behaviour that they have normalised, or that the misogynists and morons around them IRL have told them to suck up, and being given the strength and support to bin their abusers and restart their lives.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 26/06/2012 18:23

gosh those doms are a selfless lot, aren't they? Hmm

I'd love to stay and discuss this further chairman but I really don't think it's appropriate on what was started as a support thread, so I'm bowing out. See you on the next thread where BDSM comes up I expect.

TheLightPassenger · 26/06/2012 18:13

never, I came back to this thread today, as rather than getting into the nitty grit of how shite this book appears to be, I wanted to offer my support, in encouraging you to follow your instincts - which are to avoid something that might upset/trigger you. Surely more "empowerful" to read/do something you enjoy whether it's read War and Peace, knitting, cuddling a kittne or watching the Simpsons.

thechairmanmeow · 26/06/2012 17:41

your copy and paste italics are simply written by someone who dislikes men and doesnt get BDSM
the coerced weekly piv sex by with the man who's notoriously incompetant in the bedroom.

the patriachy offers this do they? was there a meeting where this was discussed?

has it ever occurd to you that the subs came first? it's their fantasy, the doms just are oppertunists . this isnt a chicken and egg senario, without the subs the dom/mes become inert.

thechairmanmeow · 26/06/2012 17:36

pubes
"what is it about hurting and dominating women that turns you on?"

well bugger me! you have assumed rather alot havent you?

carernotasaint · 26/06/2012 17:25

Ive just seem one of those "Keep Calm" type things a friend has put on facebook.
The crown still sits at the top but underneath is written.....
Cry
because
Christian Grey
is fictional. FFS

CurrySpice · 26/06/2012 11:29

Alice I think those are very wise words :)

AliceHurled · 26/06/2012 11:28

That was an xpost never. Your instinct will be right.

AliceHurled · 26/06/2012 11:27

Good call curry. My apologies for adding to it never.

My advice would be, for sure you don't have to read it, it's a pile of crap, and it might well be triggering. However to give an extra bit of personal experience, I have been known to read stuff associated with my past experiences because it can help my mind to deal with it and almost demystify it. A few years ago I wouldn't have gone near anything to do with it, now I can more because it's less of an 'over there' thing I can't deal with iyswim. Depends entirely on you, where you're at with your journey etc. But don't feel you should, nor that you shouldn't iyswim.

And thanks pubes

neveravictim · 26/06/2012 11:02

No worries pubes and curry, I think I'll leave the book to everyone else. Cant be arsed bringing up old memories

OP posts:
PlentyOfPubeGardens · 26/06/2012 10:55

Sorry, never, I got carried away. I hope you're Ok, and you Alice and anybody else who is hurt by this x

CurrySpice · 26/06/2012 10:52

No worries never :)

Did you see my advice up there? In a nutshell, I wouldn't if I were you!

neveravictim · 26/06/2012 10:32

Thank you curry

OP posts:
CurrySpice · 26/06/2012 09:11

I hope the op is ok while you all have this discussion. She did ask a specific and personal question. And while I know threads do develop, I find it odd that so few of you actually addressed her concerns at all even with a word of comfort before starting your debate Sad

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 26/06/2012 09:04

I'd be interested in what people think of this, because it rang a few bells for me:

What women claim to get out of the BDSM experience is the euphoria of transcendence. They talk of a sense of stillness and peace, of sharpened mental faculties in the days after being involved in a ?scene?, an ability to think more clearly, of being better able to focus on the mundane tasks allocated to them, and of finding it easier to meet their obligations.

So what exactly are they transcending? The answer has to be daily life and ?vanilla? sex. Vanilla sex is a derogative term used by BDSMers to describe the once-a-week-with-the-light-out sex that long term heterosexual couples are said to engage in. It is boring, goes the argument.

I?ve no doubt that it is.

Having coerced, obligatory PIV once a week with one Nigel is indeed very boring. This practice is not connected in any way to innate female sexuality, however, but is one of the demands patriarchy places upon women i.e. to sexually serve one man. And let?s not forget that men?as a group? are notoriously incompetent in the bedroom, which is another reason why women are prone to feigning headaches, or lying back and thinking of England.

Compared to this, BDSM does seem like an exciting alternative.

BDSM, then, is the solution patriarchy offers to women in place of the joyless, mundane, sexuality-less intercourse-posing-as-sex that women have to be ?up for? unless they want to be labelled frigid.

And what is daily life to women, except patriarchal oppression? If an endorphin high frees women up in some way to enjoy their lives?.. then what does this tell us about women?s lives?

Could it be, that women?s lives are unbearable and that the outer-body experience offered by being a sub is a short-term escape? Sub women talk of the sense of being unable to move when restrained and how this feeling frees them from having to think?

It. frees. women. from. having. to. think.

Women are the busy-bees of the human race, doing all the work that makes life worth living. They?re the ones with the shopping lists in their heads, the itinery of household stock to account for, the kids? birthday parties to organize. They are the office tea-ladies, the carers, the till staff at the supermarket check-out, the toilet cleaners, the P.As to Big Men?Women daren?t stop running on the hamster?s wheel because they?re not quite sure where they will land if they fall, but they?ve got a sneaking suspicion it will be someplace worse than they are right now. Women?s lives are constructed to be empty.

BDSM is the final solution offered by the very people who have caused the problem in the first place. Like shopping, it is a legitimized outlet for female frustration and rage.

AliceHurled · 26/06/2012 08:53

So just like any relationship there are discussions of consent. And just like in any they may go well or they may not. And just like in any relationship they are subject to all sorts of internal and external pressures that affect this consent. Only in this relationship the whole context is around a sexualisation of power and violence. Sounds wonderful. Can't imagine how my experiences turned out so wrong Hmm I have seen it first hand, it is not all about this rarified space of the 'scene'. Of course for some it could be, of course. My current relationship is pretty wonderful so manages to avoid all sorts of crap too. However to suggest this the case in the whole of the BDSM world, or the whole of my nonBDSM world us naive. Difference is of course, if something goes wrong in an environment that sexualises power and violence it goes pretty wrong.