the paddling pool

glasgow - No not on other threads a hard time, but here is very gentle. But reaction was valid in that case

Yes it is the paddling pool. Please lurkers, don't let that exchange put you off. You will not get a hard time. Honest, we will treat you with kid gloves.

I invited his views and offered to engage. Hard time ?!?

Oh, thanks for that Eats. I was just thinking, this is the paddling pool

Juggling, it is based on inappropriate comments on other threads. Sometimes the full picture isn't obvious.

Yeh, I think you're getting a bit of a hard time there from a couple of posters chairmanmeow

if you read 'nudge wink' into my post that says more about you than about me

I'll be checking in too chairmanmeow I was surprised that I came out as 100% radfem too - feel quite encouraged in my feminist explorations, but not sure I've been 100% accepted by all the MN radfems ! Surely that's the true test

thechairmanmeow It might be more helpful to meaningful discussion if you were to comment on the various interesting points that have been made at length and quite patiently on this thread.

You immediately jump to the 'sex' part which understandably triggers the comments made by yellow. I'm more than happy to enagage with you but how about putting your own views out there instead of comments that almost merit having 'nudge, nudge, wink, wink' added to them

thats a shame i was just starting to warm to you

I'll check in tomorrow to read more details of your sex life thechairmanmeow

I can hardly wait.

i did the quiz, amazingly i'm 100% radfem! but i now doubt the quiz.

17 % antifem? well, i suppose i'm used to getting accusations of that nature here.

very interesting thread! just read it for the first time tonight.
eats , thanx for explaining the PIV thing,( sorry , back on page 2) i think thats the first time it's been explained in a way i understand, it doesnt seem quite so crazy now either. wouldnt say i was a convert but i can see the argument has some merit now.

i wouldnt say piv sex is male centric actually, it's the type of sex that makes babies , thats all, everything else is a cultural flamboyance.

i could live quite happily without PIV, if we got creative in other ways.

Cotes - I am far from an expert on this as I have said. I read some stuff last year that convinced me - you don't have to be convinced. I don't have time now - am trying to cook dinner. But I did a quick google search and found this.
blog.world-mysteries.com/science/how-many-major-races-are-there-in-the-world/

It is not the type of serious stuff I read at all last year, but it explains what I read and gives you a starting point if you want to read more.

Italians did used to be considered by many British people as black, BME or however you wnat to describe it.

Hi Scroob - I'd say Melinda Gates using the resources and influence she has to make birth control available to women around the world is fab - and absolutely can be a feminist act (perhaps if she herself feels it is - she would be able to describe her motivations I guess)

Regarding her resources being what you might describe as joint with her partner (because I think resources in a partnership do become fairly jointly shared) am just thinking any person with resources will have been dependent on others at some time in their lives (even if just raising them as children, providing a good education etc) and in their family history, and some of those people will have been men.

I went on their No controversy in contraception site only yesterday (through email from White ribbon alliance) and added some thoughts on how contraception has enabled me and my children to live better lives.

I think it's all good ! To be encouraged ! No controversy for me !

Eats - So you say "science divides people into 4 categories" and can't tell me what they are, seem to think "Italian" is a race, and now you tell me to go find out for myself what you mean by "4 categories".

Somehow I'm not convinced that you have a point in there somewhere.

I did search and could not find a scientific categorization of four human races, fyi. I'm willing to learn, though, if you would kindly say what "4 categories" you are referring to.

Ok, last question before bedtime...

Melinda Gates is doing some amazing work to make birth control more available to women across the world. She's aiming to get birth control to something like 120m more women by 2020.

But, the money she is using is largely wealth that her husband acquired (and from other donors like Warren Buffet), and she is adamant that the scheme will not support abortion as that is contrary to her faith.

My question is whether her actions can/should be seen as a feminist act?

I've tried to analyze this one in my head and got totally confused, which I suspect just means I still haven't really got it, whatever 'it' is.

Pip - Yes thank you, that is what I was trying to say - but you said it much more clearly

Thanks eats.

Re race, as i understand it the term has a specific meaning in biology (which can apply to any animal species), as well as social and anthropological definitions which are specific to humans. The latter, in relation to humans,bessentially being social constructs in that they do not meet the strict biological definition.

(I think - waits to be corrected...)

Cote - I have read research about it, seems to be very well accepted in scientific circles - but it was about a year ago when I read lots. But a search in google should find it. But look at scientific stuff, not crappy sounding websites posing as science - it is usually easy to tell the difference.

Which "4 categories" are you referring to?

I hope "Italian" isn't one of them

"White vs black" is not what "race" means, though.

Pip- in terms of my cleaner, I don't think there is an issue with that personally. Some felt uncomfortable with that as they felt it sounded like they thought they owned the cleaner. But I agree with you - we talk about my Dr or my Solicitor.

Cote - I said that science divides people up into 4 categories based on these differences. Most socially constructed ideas of race divide people up into a lot more than 4 categories.

Pip - Yes some people need to put the analysis into practice. And I think it would be hard at a personal level to say you are a feminist and then put none of the analysis into practice in any aspect of your life. But that is an individual matter and choice.

In terms of achieving real change though, usually in social change movements it is a minority of people who put things into practice - in the initial stages. Tackling racism, overthrowing apartheid, getting women the vote - none of these started out having the majority doing anything about it or even agreeing that anything needed to change.

Of course race is a social construct.

By 'race' I mean the classification of human beings into white and non-white.

White and black.

White and people of colour.

White and 'others' (is what all these terms actually mean - and therein lies the social construct).