the paddling pool

Eats - So, when you told me to "look at scientific stuff, not crappy sounding websites posing as science", you were referring to blog.world-mysteries.com?

That blog about "world mysteries" says:

"The world population can be divided into 4 major races, namely white/Caucasian, Mongoloid/Asian, Negroid/Black, and Australoid. This is based on a racial classification made by Carleton S. Coon in 1962."

... which is funny because Coon actually divided humans into 5 races: Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid, Congoid, and Capoid. If you don't know what some of those are, don't worry. It is not a classification that holds sway these days.

That makes sense yellow - I think I feel rather the same.

Scroobius you're right.

I thought it made sense to point out why I don't really engage with men on feminist issues though.

But yeah, it's bad form.

Um, isn't this kind of defeating the point of this paddling pool thread?

Fwiw, I have no knowledge of posters from other threads and though it was bad form to carry things across threads.

I'm quite happy to talk about feminism with men and women. If other posters prefer not to, that's fair enough, but there is the option of simply not engaging.

And please other posters, don't let this put you off. You can ask questions that seem daft, say something that you think others might think is wrong, etc - it is all fine here.

Juggling, I got no problem with men in life in general. Happy to chat about any subject, got many male friends etc.

Feminism, though, that's another kettle of fish.

I think it's normal. I think it's the same for any discussion when someone on the other side can't fully understand. You can discuss it up to a point but ultimately, they're never really going to get it, so it's not that fulfilling.

I would never suggest that my Northern Irish friends could learn anything about the peace process from me, for example.

is this the opinion of everyone?

i dont want to hang around where i'm not welcome , i'm ready to leave , but if it isnt beacuse i'm a man, i would like to know why?

why then eats?

Yes you are unwelcome. But not because you are a man

Shrug, I don't really mind what you do.

ok, so am i unwellcome here?
i'm starting to get the hint, shall i just buggeroff?

I've found men on the fwr threads much more annoying than when I've encountered them elsewhere on MN yellow - as I mentioned I didn't realise chairman was a man and I would have read his post differently if I'd known.

i cant belive you yellow, it was you that said "come on guys , the op doesnt want this"
i took that on board and stopped posting, the other poster on the '50 shades' thread kept on posting, showing a total lack of respect to the poster and still you demonise me!

you have pre-judged me for being a man , damn, isnt that what the equality fight is all about? those sort of attitudes, or does it only work one way?

still, i orderd my OH that tee-shirt you linked to, cant wait to see the look on her face!

Sure, go for it.

There are perfectly valid reasons for women not wanting to discuss feminism with men. I'll engage in it on one level but I don't tend to get much out of it.

well, that says it all!
shall i namechange and pretend to be female and not get this sexist bulshit anymore?

Apologies to any who have been put off by my attack on thechairmanmeow.

I am by no means a separatist, but I am really not into discussing feminism with men.

And it was a result of posts on other threads. But we're trying not to let that stuff onto this thread I know.

So, yes. Sorry all newcomers.

Thanks for that, juggling, that makes a lot of sense. Appreciate you, and others, taking the time to answer 'beginner' questions. I will read the links posted up near the top of the thread but it's really useful to be able to test a few real situations too.

In my case, I was brought up by feminist parents and always assumed I was a feminist. Certainly would always say I was one. But lurking on thIs board has made me realize that I've done very little analysis of my 'claimed' position. A bit like saying I'm a labour voter because I've always voted labour and my parents did before me, rather than thinking about whether the labour party values are consistent with my own.

(I wonder if the thread could use more of a disclaimer btw? beginners thread, kid gloves even with the crazy questions, all posts taken at face value...)

I'm sort of regretting posting all of that because I know that it annoys various people who experience racism when it is constantly used as a comparison point for every sort of prejudice. I know that they are very different experiences, I'm just trying to distinguish between biological and social - not say that the experiences of racism and sexism are similar in nature or outcome.

Coming back to the race thing, I would phrase it that human physical variation is a biological reality that is connected to geographical areas. I would consider the colour of somebody's skin to be a variation of skin pigmentation. Race, on the other hand, is a set of social constructs attached to human variation. A person who is considered to be white in Algeria would often not be considered white in the UK.

So people can then face racism based on the biological reality of their body and they can face racism based on socially constructed stereotypes about that biological reality, or based on ideas about ethnicity which may have no connection to their biological reality. So somebody can experience racism in different ways because people a. have an issue with their skin colour 'don't like black people' b. attribute some socially constructed stereotype to their skin colour 'black people are really good dancers' or c. because of their socially constructed ethnicity 'Irish people drink a lot.'

That would equate in women and men experiencing sexism a. having an issue with biological sex 'don't like women' b. attaching socially constructed stereotypes to people who have a certain biological sex 'women are irrational,' or c. dislike of people who choose to exhibit femininity or masculinity or androgyny 'don't like feminine men or women.'

So human variation including skin pigmentation - equivalent to biological sex.
Stereotypes of race - equivalent to claims that there are 'innate' gender qualities that all/most women share.
Dislike of certain ethnic groups - equivalent to dislike of people who choose to be feminine, regardless of their biological sex.

it's ok glasgowwean certain events are making me a little paranoid, i take your post at face value now, sorry.

I didn't spot that man lurking in the women's changing room

(Is that fair do you think ?)

thechairmanmeow I apologise that my comments offended you. Perhaps asking for your views was seen as insincere but it was genuine.

is this what happens, all the radfems get together on FB and decide who their going to have a campaign agaisnt because their veiws dont fit?

why is that eats? i stopped posting on that thread when it was made clear that the op might have been upset, while others kept on posting, that was insensitive!
also, many female posters spoke about BDSM no one had a pop at them?

please, enlighten me?