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Original poster

Porn

114 replies

garlicbum · 22/06/2012 23:21

Giving this another punt, since we seem to be doing civilised controversy quite well atm :)

I used to be fairly cool about porn, though never much of a fan. Now I feel:-
? Too much bullying & exploitation is used in its making
? It promotes too many rape-like fantasies
? Sexual objectification spills over into real life
? Porn gives boys and girls weird expectations of sexual relationships.
I'm sure there's more; just typing off the top of my head.

However, I am persuaded that sexual representation in the arts is not always porn. I've seen it said the Victorians invented porn - and think I agree. It was the Victorians who simultaneously labelled sexuality "dirty" and went looking for it in secret. Women and men have always enjoyed sexy art; it wasn't porn because it wasn't considered shameful.

I believe there is still a healthy stream of sexy art, but have a hard time separating it from porn. I've no idea how one would remove the Victorians' legacy of smuttiness from our appreciation of human sexuality. Dammit.

As a feminist, what do you feel about porn? How have your ideas on it changed?

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Original poster
garlicbum · 23/06/2012 00:11

Go on, then Shirley! Please.

The Hohle Fels Venus and the Man of Cerne are pretty much all about their sexual body parts. (I was looking for that ancient sculpture form with an erection bigger than his body, but can't remember what he's called!) But they ain't porn. By contrast, the girl on the front page of The Sport wears knickers and her body is proportionate - but is pornographic in intent.

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ShirleyKnot · 22/06/2012 23:54

Yes, I think I can.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 22/06/2012 23:52

But can you define it, Shirley?

ShirleyKnot · 22/06/2012 23:50

I think comparing art to pornography is reductive.

I can tell the difference between a beautiful, sensitive piece of art which depicts the naked female form and a pornographic piece of shit which reduces a woman to just pieces of sexually charges body parts.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 22/06/2012 23:49
CaramelTree · 22/06/2012 23:47

Garlic, I think with some kinds of crime fiction, it is the puzzle element of it that is gripping, rather than any particular fascination with the crime itself. For other types of book, it is the violence that appeals to people.

Original poster
garlicbum · 22/06/2012 23:45

OLKN - I discovered how to search for them through accidental results when searching for images to use in work presentations!!

The default setting on search engines is 'moderate safe'. Hunters of the gruesome need to turn that off.

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Original poster
garlicbum · 22/06/2012 23:43

Your point is the most important one to me, Caramel. I think it overlaps into VR games, too. I've got some sound research on that somewhere (how the player's brain reacts to the virtual situation).

I like crime & horror fiction. Not the true life stuff, though. Many say the big difference between '70s porn and contemporary stuff is the cheesy storylines, bad music and cheap props that made porn films obviously 'not real'. Not sure I buy this, as there was still the backroom element that takes the 'healthy' out of sexuality, but I see the point they're making.

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OldLadyKnowsNothing · 22/06/2012 23:42

I'm sure you're not the only one, OP, having done it myself Blush but the stuff I found (on a simple "porn" search) was pretty vanilla and didn't look forced or exploitative. Perhaps I need better search terms? I'm certain there's Bad Stuff out there, but haven't seen any.

Original poster
garlicbum · 22/06/2012 23:33

I can't be the only person who hears about something, then goes to have a look for myself Grin

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CaramelTree · 22/06/2012 23:33

There are lots of things to do with porn that have been covered lots of times before.

One thing I don't see covered a lot, or not well enough for me to understand, is that impact it is having on the viewer. I think somebody's internal life is hugely important to who they are. I don't think fantasy is some separate box in somebody's head, or of it is for some people, I find it hard to imagine what it is like to be that person.

But I think sometimes people will have the attitude that they watch violent porn or whatever, but they're a really lovely, sensitive person. Well who is watching the porn then? It isn't as if you are not watching it and some shadow being does it instead. You are the person watching it; that is who you are as a human being.

Now, I know there are people who watch horror films and read true crime books and so on, and there is some overlap there, but again I think it is hard to articulate what is going on there in people's internal lives, but something must be happening there.

And of course in a relationship, you do get to know somebody's internal life, that is part of intimacy, so there has to be some way of articulating what impact porn has from the perspective of the people who watch it.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 22/06/2012 23:29

Sorry, just realised that my last post sounded rather snide, wasn't meant that way, just musing. Blush

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 22/06/2012 23:28

I am always astounded that people who claim to loath porn, seem to know so much about what it portrays.

Will watch this thread with interest.

Original poster
garlicbum · 22/06/2012 23:25

There was a bloke on a Tube, a long time ago now, who was 'reading' Page Three. As he leered over the near-naked girl in the paper, he kept looking up at me. Not my face, just my body. In that commute, I lost my tolerance of Page Three (and The Sport). I felt as though I was just a female body for the sexual titillation of a man, and that The Sun had done it to me.

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