Porn

My objections to porn are pretty common -- I've done quite a bit of research in sex trafficking and it's horrific effects, and I'm also really dismayed by the impact of porn on young people.

One thing I wish would get highlighted, to counter the 'consensual' argument used for professional porn participants, is that a lot of the porn on the popular sites is not by professionals but often includes young, clearly intoxicated women having sex, sometimes with multiple men, sometimes in the middle of a party. The explosion of smartphones and easy to use porn websites means that a lot of people are starring in porn unwillingly. Sure, maybe young people have been making sexual mistakes for ages, but today those mistakes are being put online and watched by millions.

We need to reclaim the P word, don't we?

We certainly do. I found this:

prude (prd)
n.
One who is excessively concerned with being or appearing to be proper, modest, or righteous.

[French, short for prude femme, virtuous woman : Old French prude, feminine of prud, virtuous; see proud + French femme, woman (from Latin fmina; see feminine).]

Word History: Being called a prude is rarely considered a compliment, but if we dig into the history of the word prude, we find that it has a noble past. The change for the worse took place in French. French prude first had a good sense, "wise woman," but apparently a woman could be too wise or, in the eyes of some, too observant of decorum and propriety. Thus prude took on the sense in French that was brought into English along with the word, first recorded in 1704. The French word prude was a shortened form of prude femme (earlier in Old French prode femme), a word modeled on earlier preudomme, "a man of experience and integrity." The second part of this word is, of course, homme, "man." Old French prod, meaning "wise, prudent," is from Vulgar Latin prdis with the same sense. Prdis in turn comes from Late Latin prde, "advantageous," derived from the verb prdesse, "to be good." Despite this history filled with usefulness, profit, wisdom, and integrity, prude has become a term of reproach.

I think there is a coarsening effect to the degree that what was once thought unacceptable people now shrug about. For example, the TV news of years ago would not have shown violent scenes especially in its early evening bulletins. Now it routinely shows them (albeit with a warning about some people finding it distressing). But do we all? Or do we simply say "how awful" and watch the next programme. Same with porn: what would have shocked 20 years ago stops being shocking 10 years later and what shocks us 10 years ago is no longer shocking - because it has as coarsening effect. It becomes banal because it is everywhere.

Disclaimer: I am using the collective we here - not saying it has the same effect on everyone.

Personally, if I am called a prude or even repressed because I object to porn I don't care. I would rather be a prude and thought repressed than be a voyeur who has lost the ability to empathise with other human beings.

I do think that the increased cruelty (whether faked or genuine abuse) in porn is a reflection of an increasingly cruel and divisive culture I agree with SGB on this point, it's the overall culture in which porn is being made and viewed that has shifted. I have an inkling that in today's cruel culture pornography without coercion and exploitation isn't what most young people are consuming.

The difference between erotica and pornography for me is something to do with the reason behind it's creation, the thought processes which brought it into being, what is being conveyed and whether something is slightly disturbing. It is no accidental observation that men who watch porn over time go in search of more disturbing and exploitative pornography. Is it the exploitation they seek or is it because the subconscious needs that level of contradiction where something is a turn on but equally so disturbing. Like a person frightened of the sight blood who regularly watches horror films.

I studied Critical studies to A'level (never did me any good) and my project was on Lucian Freud. Is Freuds work pornography? www.google.co.uk/search?q=lucian+freud+paintings&hl=en&sa=X&prmd=imvnso&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=BanlT6CFFM2o8QOj2cCdCg&ved=0CIwBELAE&biw=1138&bih=564 If so which paintings are pornographic and which ones are erotica?

There have been various threads on here about the nature of porn, certain issues to do with prostitution and trafficking, wider impact of porn culture on people who are not watching porn etc. And I'm not dismissing those issues, but I think there is another issue here of cruelty and suffering and our viewing of it.

The poster saying they do voluntary work, are a good parent etc. I don't want to single you out personally; it is just that I think there is an issue you highlight which I am applying to all of us including myself - where we will have external behaviours of often doing the right thing. I'm sure most of us are good parents, helpful to our neighbours and so on. Yet that isn't a way of seeing where the cracks are - when a news story comes on where somebody has done something really terrible, often friends and neighbours are utterly shocked because they never suspected anything. And I think that happens in a wider context of a disconnect between external behaviour and inner feelings which are being articulated, shared and legitimised in various parts of the media. And it almost becomes a cliche - that we considers ourselves upstanding (it used to be we considered ourselves pious and devout) while leaking this inner focus on cruelty and suffering to each other. It is as if the idea of who we are externally stops us looking at what is actually going on in our heads. And what is going on in our heads can suddenly emerge collectively in times of crisis, particularly against groups we 'other.'

Now, I'm sure the reason why we are engaging with cruelty and suffering as a form of entertainment is complex - for some people there is an identification with a victim because they themselves feel victimised. But it seems to me that a lot of crime victim focuses on the perpetrator - inside the mind of a killer and so on. There seems to be a difference between older horror films where the focus was on the victims attempts to run, flee, escape and modern ones with a focus on torture and the intelligence/creativity of the killer.

And I don't know what is going on there - I don't know what violent porn, glorifying of crime, misery memoirs, torture films, public humiliation on tv shows is collectively doing to us.

Katie

We need to reclaim the P word, don't we?

Only one person has ever called me a prude. He wished he had not, about 5 minutes into my angry lecture.....

I find that when people call me a prude, it simply confirms their stupidity and ignorance.

I think the word prude is a klaxon. It always means a woman is being persuaded to accept something that she is within her rights not to accept.

Good for you, riding

That is awful itsthequietones.

I think porn is really damaging young people's sexuality. It is normalising acts that only 20 years ago would have been seen as extreme or at least kinky by most people. It means teenage girls and young women get coerced into sex acts that they won't enjoy or may be painful or degrading. It means young girls and women change their bodies to conform to the warped ideals promoted in porn e.g. shaving, genital surgery, etc.

A lot of older people I think ignore or are unaware of how much impact porn is having on young people.

And I do think porn has a negative impact on all relationships where one or both partners use it.

And I haven't even started on the abuse, coercion, trafficking, etc of woman who are actually involved in making porn. The idea that you would want to get yourself off from potentially watching a woman being raped or abused!

So I guess it is clear that I am anti porn. I actually don't even agree or like graphic simulated sex scenes on tv/films. Too often they are gratutious and are clearly just there as "soft porn".

I can't idly watch any kind of exploitation, that includes JK, porn, X Factor, etc, etc.

It makes me angry and uncomfortable.

It makes me question myself, my motives for being a voyeur, etc. and the honest answer is invariably selfish. I do not want to be that person.

That is the main reason I hardly ever watch TV.

Hi anyfucker, you gave me some invaluable help and advice about porn use in relationships a few months back, I don't know if I thanked you at the time but your words really helped me stand up for myself and say actually no, I will not stand for this, when everyone else was telling me not to be a prude.
Thank you.

itsthequietones

you think differently about your H now, I expect. Something has shifted, a realisation.

that is what porn does to healthy relationships

that's just one of the reasons why I don't like it, and defend other's rights to not conform to the idea that porn use is normal, and harmless and is not necessarily something that people have to tolerate in their partner if they don't want to

there are lots of other reasons I detest it too, but I would be here all day

I do think that the increased cruelty (whether faked or genuine abuse) in porn is a reflection of an increasingly cruel and divisive culture (rather than waa, waa, the porn industry is the root of all evil). This pervasive idea that other people can be demonized, laughed at, relentlessly bullied for being a bit different, or for having done something successful and then not managed to repeat that success, that didn't start in the porn industry.

Oh and if you want to know who's to blame, my money's on Rupert Murdoch, the man who did the most to actively promote a culture that mixes spite and sentimentality and encourages people not to think.

Oh god I'm so sorry itsthequietones.

That must have really upset you, to find that your DH thinks that women being sexually tortured is hilarious

I totally agree SGB. I find that stuff equally revolting.

i think it's inportant to differenceiat between porn and erotica.
nudes and images of people having sex will arouse, i'm not suggesting art attempting to be above the flesh when actually it's the thinking mans porn. but this sort of non-explotative erotica i have no problem with.

it's the hard-core stuff i dont like, and the culture around it . the peroxide blonde hair, the shaved genitals, the silicone breasts.

i also have no isue with BDSM, as long as it's all safe, sane and consentual. but the 'pain' angle seems to have crept into mainstream porn so every porn actress gets treated as though they have a submissive compulsion.

I've felt uncomfortable with porn for quite a few years. It's only recently that I started to really dislike it. It started with getting broadband in a few years ago and dh thought it would be great fun to download some porn. One he found, on a file sharing site, had a man and two women in it. It kind of looked like they were all having fun until the man started doing a sex act on the woman that obviously hurt her. She had tears in her eyes, had a very pained look on her face and the other woman was holding her hand, stroking her head and telling her that it would be over soon. Dh thought it was funny. I deleted it straight away. Dh mentioned it a few weeks ago 'oh remember that porn that you deleted, it was really funny...' He didn't once consider what the woman was going through, it was 'entertainment' as far as he was concerned. I let him know how I felt about it, but I'm not entirely sure he got it.

Sorry to go OT, but I'm confused. I watch horror films and read true crime. I also volunteer at an animal shelter, volunteered in a developing country for two years, work at a homeless shelter, am a pretty good mum to my children, and visit my elderly parents weekly. So I KNOW I am ok internally, so not really sure where the point of true crime and horror comes in. I like horror for the scares and jolts, and I like true crime as it is about real people who suffered and it's their story and all about how justice was found. TOTALLY different from porn!

Solid i totally agree. I know this is changing the subject slightly but im dieting at the moment. Ive lost 1 stone 9 since the end of Feb and yesterday i had someone say to me "Well thats actually not a lot. I would have expected to lose a lot more in that space of time if it was me" I believe that this attitude is because of all these crash,fad,celebrity diets in mags and the whole celebrity culture we are living in and i cannot fucking stand it. I started off at Slimming World but left because the diet industry and this sleb culture are becoming too intertwined. Now im seeing the NHS management nurse once a fortnight and ive found this to be much more realistic and heplful. But its the comments from people who get their dietary advice from mags like Heat and Closer that really get on my nerves.

Shirley: What about misery memoirs, and the Jeremy Kyle Show/Britain's Got Talent? What about the people who consume that sort of shit, what's that doing to their brains? On the one hand, it's reading stories of horrible suffering while considering yourself a 'caring' person (and indeed getting all snotty at people who say they'd rather stick their head in a bucket of spiders than read 'Please Daddy Not The Warm Milk Again' or whatever), or watching thick dysfunctional families eviscerate themselves and each other in front of a yelling mob.

Cerne's penis was made longer by the Victorians I think. It didn't use to be that big.