Porn

wasn't there someone from JackAss who died as a result of his extreme juvenile sense of humour ?

I agree with garlic, and I hate JackAss type stuff for just that reason

mindless idiots being hurt for other mindless idiot's entertainment

itsthequietones I have no idea if your H is a bad man, but he sounds immature and a little bit cold to me

I've had a chat with dh. I just reminded him about it and asked why he thought it was funny. He blurted out that if someone wants to be paid to stick large objects up their arses and then be suprised when it hurts then he would find that funny. Must have seen the look on my face as he quickly added 'it would be funny if it was a bloke having it done to him too, it's not just because it's a woman'. He also said that seeing someone in pain didn't turn him on at all. Apparently there was a scene at the end where the two women turn on the man and try to grab his (rather sensitive at that point) penis, he thought that was funny too.

He has a very black and white view of consent - if you've said yes and have been paid then you do it. If you change your mind during it then you just stop.

He's definitely 1) on your list AnyF, he has no idea. I think he's watched way too much Jackass too.

I used to fall into the first category. Porn really didn't bother me up until this incident, I never questioned it. Reading the realities of it has really turned me against it though.

itsthequietones, I would speak to him, perhaps it is a case that some men (only some) really can not read body language, nuances in facial expression and read emotional cues and therefore they do not see the pain, or distress. Others I think probably do read subtle cues and actually get a kick out of watching women suffer. Seems like your DH is probably the former but without asking him you'll always be wondering.

Is Frueds work pornographic? Yes I think some of it is and not for the most obvious reasons. The painting of the women "Benefits Supervisor Sleeping" is eerie, like all of his paintings he uses a 100 watt light bulb, like holding a mirror up to someone, he paints them in all of their vulnerability, we see something that is disturbing and something that in no way celebrates her naked form, the dirt under the finger nails, the stretch marks and fat, she is sleeping and it seems that we are looking at her without her knowledge, like an inanimate object to be studied and it is voyeuristic. It is as though she at her most vulnerable is an object of both fascination and repulsion. Another example is "Evening in the Studio" where I believe he is mocking the naked women.

I don't believe all of his work is pornographic and I actually admire his painting. I just feel, the intend behind some of the later pieces is spite, repulsion and mocking rather then a celebration or appreciation.

Yes -- I used to be okay with porn, in a much different context. I came of age in the early 90s, in the US, when porn was a really hot issue for the Christian right... and as well, a lot of porn-bashing was also thinly disguised gay-bashing. So to say porn was okay was a way of defending sexual freedom from conservatives (which is a much bigger issue in the US, where sexual issues are more legislated).

Porn was not quite as crazy back then, this was pre-internet, also before the huge rush of sex trafficking later in the decade, still a lot of professionals making it. Not to say it was 'good' but it was nothing like what you see now.

Then tbh I didn't really think about porn for a long time. None of my partners were into it, it wasn't an issue for me.

It's when I started doing research in this area again that I was really astounded at how much things have changed, and really turned against it.

I agree AnyFucker. I never thought porn empowered. But before I knew about it, I did kind of think, well what is the harm with it if it is not the extreme kind. But finding out just a little bit about porn, totally changed my mind.

itsthequietones

I am not talking about your H specifically now, but...

my personal opinion of anybody that watches porn is one of 2 scenarios...

1. they are uneducated about trafficking, abuse and coercion within the industry. They buy into the myth that women are "empowered" and can become rich from allowing their bodies to be used on film, and hey, why shouldn't they ?

2. they are fully aware of those things, and don't care anyway . Their orgasm is more important than the chance that what they are using to get off may be filmed sexual abuse

FWIW, I believe that about both male and female users of porn, but we know that most of it is aimed at men and uses the objectification of women as it's basis.

There is a solution to scenario (1). Educate yourself. Use your brain instead of your genitals to think with. Many people who now object to porn have done this, and IMO, become a better person.

Scenario (2) ? Well, need I say more ?

Katie - I can't idly watch any kind of exploitation, that includes JK, porn, X Factor, etc, etc.

It makes me angry and uncomfortable.

It makes me question myself, my motives for being a voyeur, etc. and the honest answer is invariably selfish. I do not want to be that person.

I totally agree. I started to get really uncomfortable watching X Factor a couple of years ago. For me it was becoming aware of the lengths gone to in order to utterly humiliate the contestants. Seeing people, who just didn't realise what was happening, being used and degraded for entertainment. It's so cruel, and it seems to be a common theme.

We don't have a tv now.

I don't envy you this, itsthequietones. But if I was you I would have to talk to my DP about this. There are just too many unanswered questions there.

Basil, AnyF, Eatsbrains and Garlic - It did change my opinion of dh, I felt as though I didn't know him any more. It bothered me greatly because of how the woman was obviously suffering, but also because he just didn't see that. He genuinely didn't get that it was really happening, I could see the confusion on his face.... it was surreal and I just don't understand it.

This is a man who has never regularly watched porn, not at all in the last 8 or 9 years (to my knowledge), never buys porn or lads mags and who has been to a strip club once with work and vowed never, ever to set foot in one again.

Maybe his reaction to it was influenced by the expectations that men watch and enjoy porn, that the women 'consent' therefore must enjoy it (even if they look like they don't), that no-one would really would upload a video of a woman really being hurt so she must have been acting. Or maybe he really is a sick fucker. I should really ask him.

Aw thanks Eats I completely agree that a lot of people who are not anti-porn do not actually understand what porn looks like these days.

It did break my heart. I really cannot convey how disturbing so much of it was, and not just because I'm anti-porn but because I'm a human being. The amount of aggressive degradation of women was really astounding.The number of women who were clearly in pain doing things that have become more mainstream and they feel they have to do, the number of women being violated in front of a whole room of people, the number of women who can barely stand up and are clearly having sex with people they barely know, I mean it's just crazy. It did make me a little crazy for a while. I won't even mention the sickest stuff I saw.

I would be very worried if my partner was aroused by the stuff I saw -- which was all on the mainstream sites, the ones everyone looks at.

I think all porn use harms relationships - the harm may be small, but it is there. All porn distorts people's ideas of what sex should consist of and of what a woman's body "should" look like.

Dreaming - I am really glad there are women like you doing research to expose what porn really means. I honestly think a lot of women have no idea - unless they are very pro porn! But I admit, I couldn't have done it. It must have broke your heart to watch that happening.

and, sadly, all those women have blamed themselves

there have been many, many threads on the relationships board made my women living with men who have a real problem with porn, to the detriment of their emotional/sexual connection with their partner

I wouldn't lay any mutual blame there...the problem is solely with the person who values porn over a respectful relationship

or more likely, Frances, a problem within the individual not the relationship

I don't have a problem with porn per se but a lot of mainstream porn seems to focus solely on male pleasure and the thought that some or all of the participants may taking part against their will is sickening.

There are people out there making feminist porn and this is a welcome step. I don't think there's anything wrong with watching erotic images made willingly by other people. It can be pleasurable and why should women be denied such a pleasure?

Regarding the argument that porn destroys relationships, I would think that one or both partners retreating into a world of porn is a symptom of deeper problems within the relationship.

I think it's very telling that those who are most vocally against porn know about what's in it - I know before I was really aware of what most porn is like I was absolutely okay with it - some people filmed having sex/watching people consensually having sex, what's wrong with that?

It's the objectification and the literal way that women are treated like objects or pieces of meat that bothers me, really bothers me. I don't see how anybody can acquaint that with sex at all and it upsets and actually frightens me that people (so many people, apparently) find this a turn on. And of course the fact that a lot of it isn't consensual despite claiming to be.

I don't really understand why porn which is overtly abusive isn't illegal.

Eats, exactly. You can tell sometimes the women have no idea they are being filmed as well. And really, often the young women are so drunk that even if they seem willing it's really their rape that people are watching

NB: obviously I watched this for research purposes, not enjoyment!

dreaming - I agree. I have come across multiple situations through my work where young girls - and they can be as young as 13 - have been coerced/persuaded into filmed sexual activity that is then out on the net. And I have also come across teenage girls who think there is nothing wrong with this because "everybody is doing it" - and sadly a lot of teenagers are.

Often girls not making it to be put on the net, but agreeing to be filmed by a boyfrirend who at a later stage shares it with others and then gets put on the net.