Today I failed as a feminist.

This is an interesting and timely thread, as DH and I had an almighty row on .Friday about exactly this stuff (even down to him saying that he did do some cooking, but I pointed out I do all the planning, shopping etc). It is completely a feminist issue. Which is why the argument was so bitter - matter of principle, depressing that we still have to have these arguments etc

So far so good this weekend in a better division of labour, but we shall see how long it lasts... (I'm just back at work after 8 months' adoption leave, so it's a change for both of us)

I have assumed feminism has moved along. I was quite interested to see where it has moved to. It appears to be back in the kitchen in the 50's.

I sometimes (often) think that younger feminists need to go back to first principles. Or, rather, that feminism needs younger feminists to think this stuff through and bite the odd bullet. Women do not have free choice over how to live their lives because, as this thread shows, they feel manipulated by "what other people might think", what's readily available and what seems easier.

If feminism means doing what seems easier, we may as well surrender our vote and have done with it.
I will now take off my dungarees and wax my legs.

Back2Two Don't worry about it all so much Mrs. It's only someone else's kitchen!

Maybe you have PMT?
(That was a feminist joke).

Bringing feminism and patriarchy-bashing into this arena is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut

his responsibility too, that should say!

Plentyof pubegardens, thank you for your kind words earlier in the thread. I have found recently that making a plan for the weekend helps a LOT. But getting DH to see that childcare etc is his responsibility and he's not just 'helping' me is a work in progress. Luckily I think he is willing to work on it too.

On an unrelated issue, I'm slightly uneasy about the counter-argument that men don't pull their weight because women gate-keep or don't 'allow' men to do certain things. That may happen, but in my own experience and looking at relationships of friends, it is really not the whole explanation.

I think you are guilty of over thinking things. You say that you both work full time and yet you take on the lions share of the parenting. I imagine that this has come about without either of you noticing as you are breastfeeding so have more of a physical attachment to ds. You have noticed and addressed the issue with dh and he is in agreement that he should take on more responsibility. Problem solved. You haven't failed as a Feminist, dh hasn't failed as a parent. You just fell into a routine/rut and are now taking steps to
change that routine.

As your ds gets more mobile and demanding I doubt that both dh and yourself will have as much enthusiasm when it comes to making meals for your child. Looking at a chilli together and discussing what meals could be made with it is all very sweet but isn't representative of what goes in 99 per cent of family homes.

I think it is a feminist issue for the following reason, and apologies for again drawing on my own experience (I know this thread is not all about me, but it is the best way I can think to explain it). In the sector DH and I work, the percentage of women in senior management roles is just under 20% and the gender pay gap is 17%. The percentage of women in junior roles is more like 50/50. That means that men and women start off equal but somewhere along the line, women fall out of the picture. This is pretty true across the board in professional jobs, as far as I understand it. This is something worth challenging, I think.
But the way this comes about is surely in part because people like me do most of the childcare and people like my DH will unthinkingly book conferences, work trips etc and take the time they need to do their work. It may seem just like a case of saying, actually no, please don?t go to that conference, because I need to do x,y, or z but for some reason it is not that easy in practice (at least not for me). The question is why not? Either I am just a mug, or it is a feminist issue. It?s not just our personal relationship (which clearly has issues which need addressing), it is also the wider structures of the institutions and the sector we work in which prioritises traditionally male patterns of working (otherwise there wouldn?t be conferences at weekends or in the evening) and indeed, men.

FWIW, I was brought up to think that many of these issues had been resolved. They have not, so yes, in a way it is back to the domestic arguments of the 1970s, if we want to avoid going back to the 1950s.

I think discussing and sorting out the little things can free up lots of energy for tackling the big stuff.

Why can't we discuss the little things just because there are bigger issues in the world?

Sorry Back, haven't read all the thread. But I do think unquestioningly falling into traditional gender roles is a feminist issue. Thinking about who does what and agreeing, yes I will do most/all of the cooking because I enjoy it - fine. Different from suddenly realising you have inadvertently fallen into that role.

And I don't think we need to have a hierarchy in FWR i.e. we can only talk about rape and gendercide. It is fine to talk about all issues.

Back - Division of labour in the home is an issue that all branches of feminism think is a feminist issue. What do you think feminism is?

Lurking - no you are wrong. All feminists are hairy, strident, lesbians - fact! . And congratulations on being a RadFem in the quiz.

Back - The division of labour in the home into traditionally male and female roles is a basic feminist issue. I really don't understand how you can be a feminist and not see this?

That's what I was trying to say Eats haha. We're not a mass group of robots, we're people who simply hold feminist values :)

Well done lurking. Feminism in action!And its even good for DP. And lamb stew sounds gorgeous.

Feminists are people. Some with thin skin, some with thick skin. Just like everyone else.

We had one of his home made lamb stews. Yummy! We also agreed having him cooking regularly will help build his confidence to rejoin the work force (he's out on mental disability atm) so I'm REALLY glad I pushed this, because it'll be good for him.

Feminists? No. I do have thin skin though. :)

Lurking - So what did DP make for tea?

This is not slating the OP. Do feminists by definition have thin skins?

She did have a discussion with her husband.

And as stated, it is a feminist issue and does fall under the patriarchy.

No idea why people feel the need to slate the OP for her own personal feminist beliefs.

Back2Two, FWIW, you are not alone in your views.

I too was drawn by the thread title. And then I realised, this is a storm in a teacup. Just have a grown up discussion between 2 adults. It's not hard. No need to bring in feminism or the patriarchy.

In the meantime, I hope OP is doing the bins and DIY too.

Plentyofpubes -I don't see this as being about being critical of women (or shouldn't be). I see it as about being self- aware as women about how this happens.

Garlicbum I don't think it always happens because women have pinned too much of their identity to their "womanly" roles. Often I think it can happen more unthinkingly, but nevertheless predictably.

It happens because you are both tired and a bit bewildered by the new parenthood lark. The mum gets more time off from work, reads more books, talks more to other new mums, hangs out on MN etc... So they end up knowing more and doing more, doing more leads to knowing more and so on and you sleepwalk into traditional roles.