Today I failed as a feminist.

Sorry, missed the comma, I meant - your post, directly below my last one, about 'wifework'... should have previewed, sorry.

I think if cooking is what you choose to do and part of how you and your partner agree you divide the domestic work, there is no issue. It is an issue if you fall into it along gendered lines, and it prevents you from feeling fulfilled in other aspects of your life (no-one, I don't think, is arguing that cooking cannot be a fulfilling endeavour).

Garlic, I found your post directly below my last one about 'wifework' insightful and to the point; it made me feel less uncertain about some of the issues I see in my own life and I appreciated that.

My concern, however, would be the language employed. You did appear to be careful not to equate 'wifework' with women's work, but as wife means a married woman, or historically a woman, the language of 'wifework' still situates domestic work within what has traditionally been seen as the female sphere, I think. I would prefer a gender-neutral term, though I am struggling to come up with one, I admit as 'absolutely necessary for the world to keep turning' is a bit of a mouthful. Though maybe the point is that domestic work is gendered and the term tackles that head on, I don't know.

But I do agree that sometimes I would like to not have the "burden" of meal planning and would like to just get home and be fed (am a full time medical student) rather than having to cook for the whole family. But, dp would probably happily do it all if i asked him, but I do get a lot of enjoyment from cooking and wouldn't trust someone else to provide me with food that was healthy and nice, so it is the price I pay for being a control freak! (still happy for dp to clean bathroom and do hoovering though!)

Um, I cook for dp and dd because I like it. I also like to be in control of what I and dd eats. Dp does lots of housework that I don't like doing, and incidentally he hates cooking. Works for us. Though once he questioned whether me giving dd a cheese sandwich ( with tomatoes and fruit) for lunch was healthy. I then said if he didn't like it then he can take over the budgeting, meal planning, shopping and cooking. He soon shut up.

Thanks for your kind words :)

MB - can you nip round Pan Heights with a vac and duster now and and again, you angel?

I think I agree with Back2Two that there has been quite a bit of over analysis here. Unless the youngblowfish is running round doing everything while her DH is sat with his feet up it is just something that happened in the chaos of a new baby. Was DH doing other things while she was feeding the baby? Hopefully he was. Now the baby is older, two people had a sensible discusison and things have been rejigged.

I am SAHD and I do 99.9% of the cooking and 90% of the cleaning and other work in our house. Always have. Someone has to. It just works for us. DW does other things. Am I doing wife work? Are you all outraged for me?

Yeah, I change every couple of months :)

So are garlicbum and garlicbutt the same person?

Yes, of course it is :)

I, for one, don't disagree with anything you've said on this thread, Back2, except about children's learning - teaching methods rarely outweigh parents' modelling in the long run.

What we have is a divergence in perspective. I think feminist considerations permeate all aspects of life because patriarchy is pervasive. Thus, when I make decisions which run counter to the furtherance of gender parity, I do it as a conscious compromise. Time has reinforced my attitude here, not softened it. Youngblowfish posted her query in FWR, not Chat Even in Chat I would have asked her to consider equality issues but, as she posted here, she must have wanted a feminist pov.

I don't think anybody's suggested not "allowing" couples to divide labour as they choose! I'm asking them to think harder and to actively seek work/home balancing solutions.

The feminist issue is that wifework is widely seen as women's work and is undervalued. I say the problem is best addressed by altering both those factors - and that the people who will effect the change are ordinary couples, everywhere. You may have underestimated the power of parental modelling and cultural expectations; if not for yourself then in general.

Yes. Much better put, madwoman :)

It's a feminist issue in everyone's house. If all the women in het relationships do all the wife work, because they are happy doing that and have agreed it amicably with dh, then the women in unequal relationships are not going to have any choice. It's about normalizing men taking their share of childcare and domestic tasks.

^^ youngblowfish has just highlighted the main issue: Too much wifework drains resources that could be invested in making a difference to the world beyond the home.

Wifework and 'world work' are equally important. Investment in each needs to be balanced. For most it isn't, but the changes can be made one woman at a time.

Back2, who does what matters from a feminist pov: Taking the "easy" path and following gendered role stereotypes serves to propagate the myth that continual home-related tasks are "women's work", both in wider society and down your family's generations.

I think you said you have disabilities so there is another factor to consider in your individual home - it would be foolish to extend that as a matter of principle. I'm not sure what you're arguing here. Politically, you seem to believe in equality both in and out of the home, but personally you're giving the impression that gender roles wrt home work are OK?

Who is angry on this thread "if a woman does some wife work within the context of her relationship and their division of labour"?

A necessary pre-requisite for divvying work up is to be aware of the tasks being done, how much work they are and who's doing them. After their little review, the OP and her DH are now aware that she was doing a particular task - and unlike us they do know what he was doing meanwhile. All that will have gone into their review.

I honestly cannot see why you are so disturbed by this. If it's too trivial to spend time on, why continue spending time on it? And now you're making up strawmen. What's going on?

"Every feminist who says it doesn't matter is reinforcing women's status as "wifeworkers" who don't matter in the greater scheme of things."

Absolutely agree

I agree, summerflower, but feel the big point here is still being missed.

Women's full participation in the workforce in a traditionally male manner is a problem because:
[a] The workforce is structured around the assumption that someone else will do the worker's 'wifework';
[b] Wifework (home work) is considered unimportant or not work;
[c] Women are assumed to be the home workers.

The most available solution to this is to recognise home work for what it is - both essential to workers' wellbeing and necessary for a contented electorate - and to restructure working practices so as to allow optimal participation for both sexes.

Nobody's going to wave a magic wand and make this happen. Changes from the ground up - each woman encouraging each man and each employer to get on board - can make it happen. We're already seeing early shoots, thanks to those who recognise the importance of a work/home life balance.

Every feminist who says it doesn't matter is reinforcing women's status as "wifeworkers" who don't matter in the greater scheme of things.