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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Is sexual orientation a choice?

441 replies

WidowWadman · 13/06/2012 20:00

Julie Bindel seems to think so.

Is it just me or is that actually fairly offensive?

OP posts:
EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 18/06/2012 21:59

Our values, beliefs, ways of acting don't occur in a vacuum. We are all socialised into certain beliefs and behaviour and our culture and institutions reinforce that way of acting.

So for example in our culture we think it is important to consider our individual needs and wants. In some cultures individuals needs are seen as unimportant and it is the need of the group that matters. That affects behaviour and how peopel relate to one another.

HotheadPaisan · 18/06/2012 21:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EclecticShock · 18/06/2012 21:54

Please go ahead and report report me for mentioning words that should not be heard on this board... Calling a spade a spade :)

EclecticShock · 18/06/2012 21:52

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enimmead · 18/06/2012 21:51

eats
All white people are racist.
All straight people are homophobic
All middle class people are "classist"
All English people are xenophobic.

That's true isn't it?

Original poster
WidowWadman · 18/06/2012 21:51

Well, it may be your belief. I think your belief is a) not based in reality and b) makes you a sexist, as it's judging people on their gonads rather than on their personality.

It doesn't matter much if you believe whether it's nature or nurture that makes them sexist, the argument that no man can be not a sexist is reducing them to their sex.

So how is it ok for women to be sexist, when it isn't for men?

OP posts:
EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 18/06/2012 21:49

Chibi - I don't think men are a different species - of course not.

chibi · 18/06/2012 21:47

i guess i was just a bit floored that some people see men as belonging to a different species to women, like, i guess, chimpanzees, or maybe salamanders or something

it is a bizarre worldview and one that makes me feel Confused

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 18/06/2012 21:47

WW - that is my belief. What do you want me to do - say that I only think some men are sexist when I don't believe that?

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 18/06/2012 21:46

Enim - But all men are sexist. That is a fact. But of course there are degress and variations with it. I don't think anyone would say all men are equally sexist.

Original poster
WidowWadman · 18/06/2012 21:45

I have more than one male friend who isn't a sexist. My husband isn't a sexist. Sweeping generalisations like that really piss me off. Not only because they're unfair towards all the men who aren't sexists, but also because they're giving feminism a bad name.

OP posts:
EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 18/06/2012 21:44

I am saying the truth.

Chibi :)

enimmead · 18/06/2012 21:44

I see - we are defining sexism on a spectrum of sexism from a bit to a lot.
Is it the same for oppression - ranging from a bit to a lot of oppression?

Do you not see the difference between a sweeping statement as "all men are sexist" and then the clarification you made?

EclecticShock · 18/06/2012 21:43

Chibi, I have no idea what the significance of you post is?

Eats, seriously... How patronising. It seems to me, these views patronise both men and women who don't assign to them. I feel lucky.

enimmead · 18/06/2012 21:43

I have to say that it is statements such as "all men are sexist" is the kind of statement that does not do feminiism any favours. How are feminists supposed to be taken seriously when they come out with such a sweeping statement like this?

EclecticShock · 18/06/2012 21:41

Well, I'm certainly glad that people are not generalising my opinions based on yours, because we are both women...

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 18/06/2012 21:41

All men are sexist because they are brought up in a culture which teaches them to be so. Some men are very obviously sexist, some far far less obvious. Do you think people aren't influenced by socialisation and culture then?

chibi · 18/06/2012 21:40

Male species? What is this, please?

EclecticShock · 18/06/2012 21:39

When you so clearly are sexist.

enimmead · 18/06/2012 21:38

All men are sexist? How do you know?

EclecticShock · 18/06/2012 21:37

If denigrating the whole male species as being sexist is not fundamentalism and fascist... I don't know what your definitions of those terms are. It's like saying women are better than men because they are not inherently sexist?

Original poster
WidowWadman · 18/06/2012 21:35

You think all men are sexist? So you dismiss people as sexist, no matter what their views are or how they act, just because they have a penis?

Isn't that sexist in itself?

OP posts:
EclecticShock · 18/06/2012 21:33

It's ironic that you don't see that, when you are fighting for women's rights.

EclecticShock · 18/06/2012 21:32

That kind of mass, unevidenced generalistion is dangerous...

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 18/06/2012 21:29

Eclectic - I think we part ways on lots of stuff

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