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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Is sexual orientation a choice?

441 replies

WidowWadman · 13/06/2012 20:00

Julie Bindel seems to think so.

Is it just me or is that actually fairly offensive?

OP posts:
Himalaya · 18/06/2012 23:11

I think everyone is sexist.

Stereotyping is a natural human behaviour, we all do it all the time. We can (and should) llearn to be aware of it and not act on it, question our stereotypes etc but I don't think any one is not sexist on some level.

enimmead · 18/06/2012 23:10

goth

Great post :)

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 18/06/2012 23:10

I agree that all men have male privilege and that they are sexist.

I didn't say that men can't be involved in fighting the patriarchy - the more the merrier. Just that we don't NEED men to fight the patriarchy

enimmead · 18/06/2012 23:09

I think there is a distinct difference between having sexist attitudes and being brought up as a male and how you are treated.

A man may not be sexist in the way they treat people but can expect to be treated "as a male" - such as when in a garage, at a restaurant (who gets the bill / wine), in conversation, at work without realising he has.... male privilege.

I don't think that's sexism. I think that's being brought up as male and not realisng what that means.

GothAnneGeddes · 18/06/2012 23:08

I would say there's a difference between "all men are sexist" and "all men have male privilege*".

I would agree with the latter rather then the former.

*Although this privilege can be negated/increased by other factors like race, class, sexual orientation.

Original poster
WidowWadman · 18/06/2012 23:07

Why should men not be involved in fighting the patriarchy, too? After all it is damaging for everyone.
I really don't get separatism

OP posts:
namechangeguy · 18/06/2012 23:05

I do not judge a person by their sex. I might judge them by how they talk, or their beliefs, their manners, their treatment of other people or even their socks. But I do not judge them by their sex. So, however you want to dress it up, I am not sexist. I do not judge a person by their sex. And, just so I am absolutely clear about this, I do not judge people by their sex.

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 18/06/2012 23:00

namechange - With nice men the sexism is often subtle. For example in a mixed group, then men talk more than the women. Men's views are treated more seriously, etc. Its not always obvious in your face sexism

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 18/06/2012 22:58

Some men do recognise the patriarchy and that they are sexist

But why would you think women need men to eradicate patriarchy?

namechangeguy · 18/06/2012 22:58

Sexism - Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.

Using this definition, and self-knowledge, this does not describe my beliefs or behaviour. Therefore I can say that I am not sexist.

I can see at least one example of it in here though Smile

EclecticShock · 18/06/2012 22:57

Yeas, but how would you suggest we eradicate patriarchy if men cannot see past it?

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 18/06/2012 22:55

Eclectic - Getting rid of patriarchy. No I don't think equality is possible under our present system - so change the system

enimmead · 18/06/2012 22:55

namechange - How do you know you are not sexist?

What is sexism? What is it when a women imposes her views of how a person (male or female) should behave on that person? Sexism or reinforcement of gender behaviour?

EclecticShock · 18/06/2012 22:54

Rulers, your contribution is enjoyable and insightful as always.

enimmead · 18/06/2012 22:52

I think a problem is - but I don't think this belongs on this thread - is that many people are aware of what sexism actually is and how ingrained it is. I am reading the equality illusion at the moment and it's opened my eyes to some things I hadn't really taken on board or been aware of.

Society can't change unless people become more aware of what is wrong with society and accept that it is wrong. That goes for men and women brought up in a sexist world.

But that is another thread and way off the OP.

RulersMakeBadLovers · 18/06/2012 22:52

I wasn't talking to you, ES.

FACT

Original poster
WidowWadman · 18/06/2012 22:51

So what is it that makes women different, in your view, eats - why do you think women are capable of being not sexist, whilst men aren't?

OP posts:
namechangeguy · 18/06/2012 22:51

Sure? How can you be?

EclecticShock · 18/06/2012 22:50

Well, you want equality but men aren't capable in your view, so what is your answer?

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 18/06/2012 22:49

namechange - I am sure actually you are

EclecticShock · 18/06/2012 22:49

Rulers, why don't you actually address me or me with your constructive opinion. I know it's hard work but i feel it would be much more constructive.

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 18/06/2012 22:49

Eclectic - what makes you think I want to eradicate all men?

I want patriarchy not to exist so we can all live as individuals.

Rulers :)

namechangeguy · 18/06/2012 22:48

I am a man, and I am not sexist. There, I said it Grin

EclecticShock · 18/06/2012 22:48

Significant even...

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 18/06/2012 22:47

Enim - let me know when you find a totally non sexist man. And sometimes it can be much more subtle than that stuff.

I think men raised in a sexist way can become much less sexist, but not totally.

And i believe in the patriarchy - so it is not just about individual men, but institutions, our culture our laws, etc.

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