Is sexual orientation a choice?

AFAIK, there is some considerable criticism within the lesbian community of political lesbianism as it is seen as s appropriative. Also, would you really want to sleep with someone, who rather then fancying you, viewed you as a political statement? I wouldn't.

Also, having read Julie Bindel talk about her first kisses, first with a boy and then with a girl, it would appear that she is of the fancying women rather then men sort, I think she just claims it's a choice to gain some sort of credit, like it's not enough to be an "accidental" lesbian.

I don't think anyone knows how much of sexual orientation is innate and how much is acquired, the scientific body doesn't make any claims of knowing. I think all human behaviour is a mixture of nature and nurture, so I don't see why sexuality would be any different. I think that those who come down on one side or the other have a political motivation for doing so until the evidence is there to support them.

Devora, I was saying that you have no more choice about your sexual orientation than you do about being a woman or black, or sightless or deaf, etc.

I think there is a difference because there's a fluidity to sexuality which there isn't with those other things - and you can choose not to express sexuality at all. But I maintain people wouldn't have died for their homosexuality if they were able to simply choose to be straight.

'Plain wrong' -

I'm not sure that argument works, garlicbum. I suffer sexism, but would never want to be a man. My dp suffers racism, but would never choose to be white. And so on.

Hah, breasticles! Just seen your post

Nah. I'd prefer to be lesbian - it would make my life easier in numerous ways and I do find women sensually appealing. But I've tried it and it just isn't 'there' for me. Could be the pheromones or summat, but a sexually excited male (assuming I'm willing) has an effect on me that women don't.

I agree that sexuality's a lot more fluid than our society likes to admit. A person can be sexual in many different ways, and people change. But it's plain wrong to insist that sexual orientation is some kind of lifestyle choice. Folks have died for their orientation, and continue to suffer for it. They wouldn't do that if they could choose otherwise, would they?

Labels. I hate them. People change in their sexual orentation...or they stay the same with reagards to which sex they are attracted to. We're just obsessed with NAMING every emotion, every thought process and every little tic that we go through. Boring.

The article was written by a sixth former in 1984.
Therefore I'm not rising to it.

Yup, after 30 years as a lesbian it may be that what I think of as active choice is actually comfortable habit

Why is it offensive to say there may be a strong element of choice in sexual orientation?

I've always thought that at some level I chose to be a lesbian. Of course, it wasn't that straightforward, but I'm quite capable of having enjoyable relationships with men but have chosen not to. My dp feels the same.

I'm aware that not all lesbians feel like this. And even fewer gay men. But I'm not going to deny my reality because it doesn't fit with current orthodoxy, or because it inconveniently fits with what some American bigots are saying.

As for the rest of the article, I don't share Julie Bindel's political perspective and I was quite prepared to read and critique it, but reading ncg's posts have rather put me off. Criticise another dyke for being too dykey? Nah.

Sorry, it wasn't clear to me that the term was why you found the post offensive, which what caused our initial misunderstanding.

Possibly.

The term dykes is of course unacceptable but I understood ncg to be saying that is what the media image is. Anyway, can understand its offensive.

Acceptable to me

Didn't stop some people using far worse language on some of the trans threads, did it? But I agree "dykes" is unacceptable. I do think the image of rad fems is one the media have though which is a shame.

As to sexual identity - I think it's....complicated. I know 1 person whose own experience and lifestyle is totally new to me. I've learnt some new words from them and a whole new lifestyle.

Relationships are complicated too.

And she's really not saying anything that hasn't been said, repeatedly, since around 1980. Can't remember when the Leeds collective published its pamphlet about compulsory heterosexuality, sorry...

I agree, she plays the "media" game.

Bindel is part of the meeja. She is has quite a lot of influence, including among quite a few MNers who think she is as fabulous as a fabulous thing.