Breastfeeding and Feminism

eclectic I don't think it's saying 'men' as a homogenous group want to stop BFing, just that there can be mixed feelings from them about their partners breastfeeding and certainly that there is a power about it that removes them from the picture entirely in some ways. And the element that sees breasts as sexual playthings only cannot be denied.

I agree with Vashti - whilst I BF our children, their father did other parenting/home stuff.

He washed clothes, cooked meals, bathed children and didn't spout crap about breasts 'being for him' - something a lot of men still do.

eclectic men can't get pregnant or give birth, right, but apart from that - breastfeeding is the only thing which gets in the way of mothers and fathers being equal when it comes to caring for a newborn (that and the lack of paternity leave over here).

I understand this but it is down to biology. I still don't understand why giving birth is a feminist issue? I'm not fluent in all things theoretical about feminism so I would appreciate some help.

Men and women are different - but that can and should mean equal. I know that when my DH left the baby and I to BF it was not an escape but a definite feeling of being sidelined in one respect, whereas in another i.e. going to work, it was because as I was raising my game in new and unchartered ways at home, he needed to raise them at work for the time I was off and punch above his weight in terms of earning power. All new roles but both utterly critical. HOWEVER this of course changes wih the child's age and I would fiercely welcome a world which championed women as mothers but also as workers without the former being to the detriment of the latter.

ES, of course giving birth is a feminist issue! Death due to pregnancy and childbirth is twice as high in the USA as here. How can that not be a feminist issue? It is a health issue that applies only to women.

So are we saying men want to prevent bf? If you let a man or society prevent you bf, you really will let anything influence you.

Redhot I think it only gives them an out if they were that way inclined already tbh. I think the outcome would have been the same no matter how the baby was fed.

As to the feminist formula positive position, that goes to the very heart of what you believe feminism to be for - is it to create a level playing field where we can all work ourselves into the ground for a wage equally or is it to celebrate what makes women different and ahem ultimately superior to men.

EM, I don't think there is anything particularly feminist about women returning to the workplace when they have young children, or in equal parenting. But I do agree that the existence of formula milk gives women more choice, and in some cases saves lives.

But all these men who slope off out, because the woman is breastfeeding, couldn't they be cleaning the house, washing clothes, bathing children, doing the shopping etc? Breast feeding is hardly the only thing that needs doing in a family.

at the tesco points thing!

We, I'm obviously missing something. Please explain how giving birth is a feminist issue? Have I misunderstood feminism?

Can't believe that people don't see how your baby is fed as being a feminist issue. First of all there is the fact that men thought women and their breastmilk weren't good enough for babies. Hence formula, hence loss of breastfeeding knowledge, hence the comparative rarity of bfing nowadays.

Then there is the lack of support (and knowledge) post birth for mothers who want to breastfeed.

Then there is still a rarity of bfing in public and still a wariness/dislike of it.

Then there is the sexualization of breasts (which is a comparatively modern phenomena).

Then there is the pressure on women to bf (but with little support) as opposed to ff.

And then if you look at ff then there is a whole host of little punishments penalties for women who formula feed. The most ridiculous one I heard of being no Tesco clubcard points for buying formula.

But men and women are not equal in terms of responsibility for an unborn baby and newborn. We have different roles. Men and women cannot be equal on all life's scenarios, we are biologically different.

BTW I bf both my DCs.

Widow - The Politics of Breastfeeding is a fascinating read, and challenges the patriachal society a lot. E.g. why are workplaces set up so that it is unacceptable for babies to be with their mothers, why can working not be more flexible?

If you read 'The Politics of Breastfeeding' it explains the historical context of how it has been used to control women.

This book and Michael odent also point to the cultural differences between places with a high prevalence of bfing and low, with the higher being more social and community orientated, and the lower prevalence individualistic, selfish and competitive.

It's suggested that where bfing is reduced, female hormones are also reduced. In particular oxytocin. Making for a male hormone dominated society.

Yes I agree Vashti formula companies do seem to be much better regulated in the Uk.
You could argue then the feminist approach, while supporting choice, could actually be formula positive in terms of promoting women returning to the workforce and encouraging equal paternal involvement in childcare.
Especially as some benefits have been overstated for babies in the developed world. Just musing really.

I don't think that this should be about which is better or that women should be pushed towards one 'choice' or the other. Women have been pushed in both directions over the last sixty years. It certainly isn't a myth that many women were encouraged for decades not to breast feed - my own family have memories of this.

The reason why all this is a feminist issue is because it is about a lot of people telling women what they should and should not do with their own bodies, and the idea that a woman's body has a meaning to other people that is far greater and odds with what it means to that woman. My body, my choice I suppose.

I can see both sides, but it is undisputeable IMO that BF gives men an 'out' in terms of childcare.

Lots of my friends DHs started off providing almost 50/50 childcare with their DWs. Then it lessened ("well there's no point both of us getting up for night feeds"). Then the Hs start having more 'time off' - "whilst you're feeding the baby I'll pop to gym/pub/shops". Then nights away/out - "X&Y have invited us out. I know you're going to have to stay home to feed baby, but I can go and catch up with them if you like".

And that's not to mention to the old "I think baby wants you not me, she's bound to be hungry" cop out.

My DH didn't get away with most of the above, cos I won't have it, but its amazing the amount of women who do. And it is just a slippery slope, ingraining the fact that it is a womans job to meet the needs of the baby.

And what Starlight said.

My personal opinion is that it's each womans choice and some women make you feel bad for not doing it as it is supposed to be so natural. I bf and it doesn't feel natural, it can be very hard and Painful but it was my choice to persevere.

Why do you think it's a Feminist issue? Is giving birth a feminist issue? I'd have periods a feminist issue?

I think Palmer's 'The Politics of Breastfeeding' explains why this is a women's issue (and therefore a feminist one).

It isn't a feminist book as such but it really makes you think.

www.pinterandmartin.com/the-politics-of-breastfeeding