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Original poster

Breastfeeding and Feminism

169 replies

WidowWadman · 08/06/2012 19:58

Someone mentioned it on the Patriarchy Thread, but I think it deserves a thread of its own.

Breastfeeding is getting a lot of positive coverage with "breast is best" and similar slogans, and I think anything which encourages access to support is great.

At the same time, there's no doubt about it, breastfeeding is tying women down, at least for the initial months, in a way that bottlefeeding doesn't.

Now I've BF'd my first child for 18 months, and have been BFing my second for a year now with no idea how long I'll continue.

Once established, I find it harder to quit than to keep going, even though I seriously wish sometimes she'd just wean herself. I felt the same with No2.

I'm a bit ambivalent about it - I like the fact that it's free, helps to shed weight, and that it means less washing up and sterilising. I'm just really not sure about the ideology thing.

I think women should be getting support if they want it, and that includes access to space for pumping while at work, but I don't like how mothers who choose not to are being made feel guilty. And I'm seriously not sure whether the benefits aren't overstated by the pro-BF lobby.

In a way, a woman who doesn't breastfeed can enjoy freedom much earlier than one who does, so the overzealous promotion of BF (as shown in the endless breast vs bottle arguments), seems sometimes a bit anti-woman to me. It all points into the whole essentialist gender role crap again, doesn't it?

So what is the 'proper' feminist stance, if there is one?

OP posts:
StarlightMaJesty · 08/06/2012 21:46

Well I must admit I have no idea what anti-intellect is, but I don't think it takes an incredible amount of imagination to see an alternative world/society where chikdrearing is valued and a part of a developing society/culture than something that has to be removed from it.

YouBrokeMySmoulder · 08/06/2012 21:43

I think it's not as easy as that eclectic, choice is hard, so I chose to stay off work longer to bf and have more time with my dc and so my career has suffered, is that fair enough or not?

If I want to bf in a shopping centre without feeling embarrassed or self conscious is that a feminist issue?

Original poster
WidowWadman · 08/06/2012 21:41

That sounds very anti-intellectual, starlight

tethers, good point about the trope of "if you only had enough support" - but I never met a woman in real life who said she didn't want to. They all said that they couldn't/didn't have enough milk and I wonder how many of them basically had been shamed into saying that rather than standing by a perfectly valid choice. (Sorry if that sounds patronising, it isn't intended to be)

OP posts:
tethersend · 08/06/2012 21:40

Eclectic, oppression doesn't happen because people let themselves be oppressed...Confused

EclecticShock · 08/06/2012 21:38

TCOB, ok, I get that you may all be pondering. To me it's straight cut, do it or don't do it, but don't blame everyone else for your decisions. Women will never be truely equal if we keep looking for reasons as to why we are oppressed. Just stop letting people oppress you. Why care what society thinks, do what you want.

StarlightMaJesty · 08/06/2012 21:37

Of course they are not wrong widow, but those roles have evolved in the patriarchical context which has never considered the female and her needs or the needs of integral family life.

It's hard to see how they could be arranged any differently now given the history and acceptance nd the whole structure of our society, but things needn't have evolved they way they have.

Original poster
WidowWadman · 08/06/2012 21:37

tethers - whilst I like my breasts for sexual things too, the posters you linked to are awful. And I can't see them win anyone over who wouldn't want to bf anyway.

OP posts:
tethersend · 08/06/2012 21:36

Agree with others, v. interesting discussion Smile

StarlightMaJesty · 08/06/2012 21:35

Because where a woman is controlled by being made to bf andvthen used as an excuse to diminish her role in society it is a feminist issue. And here she is being controlled by being made to ff in order to try and 'compete' with men as if men are to be aspired to.0, is a feminist issue.

They ar both.

Original poster
WidowWadman · 08/06/2012 21:34

starlight - you lost me there. I'm not working in 'production' (apart from the production of paperwork) - are you suggesting thatcareers like mine, in which you need to be able to concentrate without distraction are wrong?

OP posts:
TCOB · 08/06/2012 21:34

eclectic - it's a discssion. And that means pondering around the issues being raised by the OP. We're not in AIBU where a simple yay or nay would suffice (in fact this topic in AIBU could go totally nuts).

tethersend · 08/06/2012 21:33

I think that there are feminist issues if not within bfing itslf, but the marketing of it. This poster for example; a clear reminder that a woman's breasts are for anyone but her. Or this one, which attempts to market bfing as a fashion accessory.

Much of the marketing seems to centre around the idea that you can still be 'sexy' and breastfeed; this irks me intensely. Why on earth should being attractive to men be a concern of a woman feeding her child? It smacks of "Don't worry, you can still be exploited!".

FWIW, I hated bfing. I tried it with DD1 and gave up after about a month; a month of hell where my body did not feel like my own- this time I decided to ff DD2 from birth and I cannot believe the difference this has made to my mood, it's fantastic. I had to have absolute conviction in my decision to do this however, as it was questioned at every turn. It is often erroneously assumed that women who ff do not have enough information or support with which to make an informed choice; it is this patronising assumption which needs challenging, and I believe that this too is a feminist issue.

EclecticShock · 08/06/2012 21:32

Ww, plenty of people will tell you that you are wrong about anything. It's not a feminist issue.

EclecticShock · 08/06/2012 21:31

This thread is confusing. Op is talking about patriarchy enforcing bf? Some posters are talking about patriarchy discouraging bf. who cares what anyone else thinks, you do what is right for you and your child. Why is everyone so keen to blame others for their decisions?

YouBrokeMySmoulder · 08/06/2012 21:31

I agree TCOB, in our US office where women are effectively asked to choose between working full time from 3 months and not bf or not returning at all, they choose not to return. And this in a female-dominated office. That is not the sort of level playing field we should be aiming for.

StarlightMaJesty · 08/06/2012 21:31

But widow, Chikdren and families were intrinsically tied up in the means of production and valued as a part of it.

The separation of roles was a patriarchical move.

Original poster
WidowWadman · 08/06/2012 21:30

eclectic

When you are faced with the question how you would like to give birth there's plenty of ideology thrown at you.

Ever heard the phrase "to posh to push"? That's denigrating a woman's choice for a ELCS.

Ever heard horror stories about the cascade of intervention trying to scare you out of asking for pain relief?

Ever heard the horror stories about dead babies when you plan a home birth or horror stories about big fat forceps used in hospitals which you wouldn't need if you only trust your body enough to give birth at home?

No matter what birth mode a woman favours, there's plenty of people who'll tell her that she's wrong.

OP posts:
TCOB · 08/06/2012 21:30

We're groping our way around what a 'proper' feminist stance would be which is what the OP asked. And whilst it's not what I expected to be doing on a Friday night it's a damn sight more interesting Smile.

EclecticShock · 08/06/2012 21:28

Agree but that's not what the op is about?

TCOB · 08/06/2012 21:28

widow surely there can never be a truly 'level playing-field' - just one where there are peaks and troughs on both sides? And why does the 'level' always seem to imply women being the same as men rather than vice versa e.g. women stopping BFing rather than men trying to start? (okay silly example but YKWIM hopefully...).Or the male-created archetype of working hours being imposed on everyone else rather than the historically more flexible female way?

Emphaticmaybe · 08/06/2012 21:28

Yes I agree the feminist approach I would like to see is pro choice, and breastfeeding should not exclude partners from equal parenting, it didn't mine.

I was just thinking about the way the pressure to do the right thing for the baby,(breastfeed, long maternity leave etc) could disadvantage some women in the workforce due to the current patriarchal set-up. Of course I would like to see this changed, but as it stands now,breastfeeding longterm could make working women's lives more difficult.

Original poster
WidowWadman · 08/06/2012 21:27

starlight Sorry, but I disagree. On occasion, when the kids are ill I work from home. It's not possible for me to be as productive quality and quantity wise when I have to tend to a child at the same time. And the child doesn't get the right level of attention either. That's nothing to do with patriarchy or men "controlling the means of production" - but all with it being bloody impossible to concentrate properly on whatever you have to do whilst there's a child asking for attention.

OP posts:
EclecticShock · 08/06/2012 21:26

ES, of course giving birth is a feminist issue! Death due to pregnancy and childbirth is twice as high in the USA as here. How can that not be a feminist issue? It is a health issue that applies only to women.

Yes and everything should be done to make it safer and is being done by medical profession, probably mainly male.

I'm sorry, I don't understand your point, I'm trying, but you need to spell it
Out for me.

As women, we are at risk from certain things, how is that down to unequal rights? It's biology surely?

VashtiBunyan · 08/06/2012 21:26

Eclectic, it isn't particularly theoretical.

People should have the health care they need. Women should have it and men should have it.

Women need a different kind of health care to men because women get pregnant and give birth. If they don't get adequate and appropriate health care, some of them will die.

Ensuring that pregnant women do not die due to unequal health care is a feminist issue, and is in the declaration of human rights!

StarlightMaJesty · 08/06/2012 21:23

Men created the un-bf-friendly working environment.

In the past in many cultures women controlled the means of production and their babies fitted into that.