"You're not like a rape victim"

Chibi - I am really sorry if what I said feels like silencing and shaming. That was not my intention at all.

It is prefectly fine for it to be a huge deal for you. It doesn't mean that you are weak and sheltered. And it is not wrong if like mashed you think rape is the worsr thing that could happen to you. And your beliefs are not wrong. Even if they are different to someone elses, your beliefs are as valid as anyone elses around all this.

I don't think for a minute that there are women who weren't all that upset about being raped. I have been raped and I don't think it is the worst thing that could have happened to me - but I was still very upset.

I suppose I think the saying that rape is the worst thing that could happen to a woman is I think bound up with so many other fucked up ideas about rape and rape myths. And I am sorry I am not very good at expressing it, so it has come out wrong on this thread.

chibi I am so sad (and angry) to hear what happened with you.

I agree with chibi - it should not be a comparative thing at all.

I think the best thing to say is, society and individuals alike should not assume a rape survivor will always respond in the ways they think expect. It's not about what the other people expect - they should have the humility to see that. People react in a variety of ways. Saying anything else, is IMO getting into the horrible train of thought where people are mentally judging rape surviors' reactions when there is no need to do anything except believe them.

X posted with lots of people it took me a loooooong time to work out how to say what i wanted to say, it is still probs wrong [embarassed]

of course,i can see how things coyld be worse, for me, for anyone. why does this need to be pointed out? it has the effect of feeling silencing, and shaming.

i don't know if i was devestated. i did not walk around rending my clothes and smearing ashes into my face as i gibbered. i went to my classes. i went to my job. i saw my friends.

i also slept with a lot of men, out of self hatred. I ate a lot of pills. I did no schoolwork and was asked to leave. i thought of ways to stop my stupid life. I tried some of them.

this was a big deal to me. i don't know why - was i just really weak, sheltered, i don't know. I don't think so, but i would say that.

It is probably reassuring to those women who weren't all that upset to hear that their feelings are normal. for me, who was upset it reads (retroactively) as get over it, you big baby, you're doing it wrong. it gives me an extra twinge to think that as i am so far away from the event in time and space i can't change anything now.

I've skimmed through the thread and wanted to say I'm pleased this discussion is being had.

I; like 25% of women; am a rape survivor.
It created chaos in my life for a while, but it did not 'break' me or put me off sex.

What upsets me the most is that one quarter of women have been through this, so there must be many more who are in support of those 25%.
Who are the women perpetuating the myths?
Do they live in a different world?

Criminals are responsible for the crimes they commit.
No one ever 'asked' to have a crime committed against them.

The way to deal with this is as has been said upthread, make reporting and punishing the crimes easier rather than placing the blame on those who are singled out by the criminals.

I would also say having my child murdered infront of me, being murdered, have someone close murdered etc is as devastating as rape.

Maybe it's because of my own personal experience but if non rapists and rape survivors all viewed rape as seriously as murder and took a stance against it, it could be dealt with better for every victim.

Rape changed my life and killed the person I was. For a long time I felt like a ghost and I have had to become someone I wasn't before.

I agree with Cailin and I have pmed you. Sorry about hurting you.

Mashed - its great that you stood up to and challenged the myth rapes on that thread. It doesn't matter if you only have a basic understanding of feminism. I have learned so much on the FWR board.

Chibi we're actually agreeing with you in an indirect way. There is an understanding in society that rape is the "worst" thing that can happen to a woman, implying that that is the pinnacle of suffering and therefore for it to be "real" rape you have to be absolutely broken by it. As you point out in the example with your dad no one needed to tell him it was the worst thing that could happen to him. It was just something terrible that happened, they were able to accept it for what it was, and help him get through it. That's often not true of rape. Does that make sense?

I am really sorry some of what I said hurt you, there is no excuse for that and I do need to think more carefully about what I post.

I have responded because I think you've made perfect sense and that everything you have said was worth hearing. I'm glad you said it.

I agree rape is one of the most devastating things that can happen to a woman because of reactions to the victim.

Look at the ched evans case for example, or women who are raped and mutilated in war. Or raped and purposely infected with std's.

Rape is used as a weapon in war

I was on that drink thread hrhdirona and not taken seriously as a rape/dv/pedophile survive because I was seen as a gobby feminist for standing up to the rape myths

Has happened before on mn

I only know basic feminism

Chibi - You are not a loser!

But you are right about the quad bike accident. If someone loses a limb, people don't say that is the worst thing that could have happened to you. Theya lso don't say, worse things could have happened. Because it doesn't have all the moral overtones and it is not sexual.

But feeling confused about this, is not your fault. Society is seriously fucked up on its views on rape and that affects us all inside

Chibi - No of course not, you are allowed to be devastated by what happened to you. Rape can be the worst thing to happen in an individual woman's life. It may be the worst thing that ever happens to her. There is always someone who has it worse, whatever you have gone through, that doesn't mean you are not allowed to be very upset and maybe traumatised by what has happened.

But maybe you can see that although it is the worst thing that had happened to you, other things could happen that are worse?

And I agree Cailin, this phrase does given men too much power

Actually why does it have to be a contest? my dh had a bad quad bike accident once and no one said, well hmm yes, but it's not like it was the worst thing that could happen to you, you could have been paralysed. people asked how he was, he told them, and tgey seemed satisfied with that - no one felt the need to tell him about people who had breezed through similar, had worse etc

actually you know what, don't respond to this. i am not being rational, i feel all twutchy and triggered. after all these years. Loser!! (me not anyone else)

Oh chibi I'm so sorry, I'm hurting you with what I say. I am really really sorry.

Agree again Eats. I was raped by a boyfriend. It definitely wasn't the worst thing to happen to me in my life. It was awful in many ways but it wasn't devastating. But saying that makes me feel like a fraud because of the myth that because I've been raped the worst thing in the world has happened to me and I should be absolutely distraught. I'm not. It was shit but I'm not broken by it.

Well i did have good support from my friends and it still derailled me. whoops. i am wondering now what was wrong with me that i couldn't get past it quickly and easily like i should have. as assaults go it wasn't even that bad probably, i have heard stories on here tgat i would consider worse

i do remember even at the time feeling ashamed of how i felt, i knew people had it worse. what is/was wrong with me that i couldn't shrug it off, it took a long time before i felt comfortable going out after dark by myself, even if there were people around

i must sound like a mega loser, but i was only 15, is the stupidity of youth a defense?

I agree Eats. I think it implicitly gives men too much power to imply that they are capable of doing the worst thing possible to a woman, and that by raping a woman you have hurt her more than she can possibly hurt by anything else. Of course it could be the worst thing to happen in a woman's life, but saying it automatically is isn't helpful to anyone as it perpetuates the myth of the rape survivor being a totally broken woman.

And I agree with Cailin, you can't ignore the social context of how rape victims are viewed and treated. And rape myths, etc can often make things much worse for victims.

Saying rape isn't the worst thing that can happen; also means that rape can be pretty damn devastating. And if a rape isn't seen as a "real" rape i.e. not a stranger in a dark alley, then often it is can be seen by others as no big deal.

So I have heard views that prostitutes being raped is no big deal and shouldn't really affect them or that women who are raped by men they have already had consensual sex with haven't really been raped and shouldn't be upset. But that comes from the obviously false belief that this isn't really rape. When of course it is.

Sorry, of course rape can devastate woman and of course it affects you negatively. I too have been raped. Of course Chibi and others, you are not overreacting if it derails your life and makes life almost impossible.

But other terrible things that are often worse, can and do happen. Although I appreciate for some women these things happen as part of the rape as well. So being tortured so that you lose the use of some senses or limbs? Being killed? Having your children killed in front of you?

Worse things can and do happen. I think the phrase, the worst thing that can happen to a woman, is obliquely referring to her loss of "purity", particularly for a "good" i.e. "respectable" rape victim.

Chibi once I had posted my last post I regretted it. You were not an overreacting loser, not by any means, and your reaction is perfectly understandable. Rape often does derail the life of the victim but IMO that's not entirely due to the rape itself, it's also due to the fact that the victim can often tell no one and has little or no support. Rape is horrendous but if the victim is given a chance to talk about it and is given strong, unbiased support then it is possible to move past it quite quickly IMO. The real damage happens when the victim is left to deal with it herself, then it most definitely can be the worst thing to happen to her. In today's society that's often what happens unfortunately.

i am a bit confused about 'not the worst thing that can happen'. when i was assaulted as a teenager, i still went out with my friends, went to parties, had a job etc etc, but it also completely derailled my life for about 3 years and i tried a variety of direct and indirect ways of harming or killing myself

reading it back it looks like it wasn't the worst thing that could happen to me either, but when other people say that i feel like 'huh, maybe i was making a big deal out of it?' and that i was some overreacting loser

is that making any sense? hence my confusion

Rape could be the worst thing to happen to a woman, if her life was pretty straightforward in other ways, but I'd imagine that would be rare. Rape is awful and horrible and can be devastating but it is possible to move past it, with the right support and understanding.

No it wasn't lame at all Ratbag - and good to see you in this section.

And I think this attitude that rape destroys you, is very common. Was it Germaine Greer who said - no rape isn't the worst thing that could happen to a woman. Which was greeted with outrage, but is I think true.