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Original poster

Radfems and transsexuals – an outsider’s view

209 replies

NoviceProFemGuy · 03/06/2012 12:56

I?ve been reading the recent threads discussing feminism and transgender, and pretty challenging I?ve found them too. As an outsider, though, I can?t help thinking a lot of the radfems? concerns aren?t, in reality, an issue when it comes to the practicalities of how men oppress women.

This is going to be a bit of a long post, so to save it all appearing at the top of subsequent pages (assuming there are any) I?ll put the meat of it in a separate post below.

OP posts:
Beachcomber · 03/06/2012 21:26

I think meow uses the 'demons in you head' thing (and he has used it several times so it obviously counts for him), to imply that certain posters are a not quite right in the head (paranoid, making shit up, etc), when they engage in feminist analysis. In other words, people he doesn't agree with have mental health issues.

No?

We see this all the time - it generally means STFU or IAOOMD (I Am Out Of My Depth).

VashtiBunyan · 03/06/2012 21:20

I don't know much about the subject, but I though people with schizophrenia were now advised that they should talk to their voices.

What do you mean Pan, that your friend has a thing she talks to?

Pan · 03/06/2012 21:17

yes, I see the daft use of 'demons' for most people as a sort of mental curse, without the 'liberation' of having a figure that you can 'talk to' i.e. for eg your better self, or an embodiment of something you aspire to. ( a friend of mine does have a thing she talks to and she is utterly sane.)
In this thread's context 'demons' was used as an 'insult'. But demons and daemons are not so divorced from each other.imo

StarsAndBoulevards · 03/06/2012 21:04

Pullman, from what I know of his writing, enjoys poking fun at religion. I think, from what I remember, he was quite well versed in religious studies (see The Goodman Jesus and The Scoundrel Christ; he provided an entire parody on the New Testament)

StarsAndBoulevards · 03/06/2012 21:00

Pan, it was indeed. But those were daemons, and a fantasy creation; as far as I'm aware, Northern Lights was the first time daemons were used in the way Pullman described them.

I doubt that's what CM was referring to, though. The use of demons as voices in your head predates His Dark Materials by quite a few centuries

VashtiBunyan · 03/06/2012 20:59

Yes, it is strange with Pullman that his intention was to create a teen atheist novel, but ended up writing a lot about Gnostic myths instead. Not that the animal bit was gnostic, but the overall books head in that direction.

Pan · 03/06/2012 20:56

Wasn't the daemon/demon thing covered in the Pullman novels? As a for instance. That your daemon is a representation of your soul, made manifest. So it gets a bit tricky for non-religous types.....re having demons etc.

Beachcomber · 03/06/2012 20:36

Vashti Grin.

Pan · 03/06/2012 20:36

s'okay. Am sorry for the mither.

I am usually so fair and accurate.Hmm

Beachcomber · 03/06/2012 20:34

Thank you.

Pan · 03/06/2012 20:30

done.

Pan · 03/06/2012 20:28

ok. I seriously didn't know you could self-report.

Beachcomber · 03/06/2012 20:22

Well that's nice Pan.

If you really want to withdraw that post you just have to hit report.

Pan · 03/06/2012 20:07

or accurate.

Pan · 03/06/2012 20:06

ok Beach. I do honestly withdraw the 'self-victim' thing entirely. You're right. So I do apologise. I wasn't being fair about it at all.

StarsAndBoulevards · 03/06/2012 20:01

Hint number 1: Change your tone.

Hint number 2: Stop telling us women how to behave.

HTH

Beachcomber · 03/06/2012 19:59

Right Pan Hmm.

I tend to find it is best to keep personal pronouns and implications about a person finding satisfaction in self-victim indulgence out of debate and disagreements. Because they look remarkably like personal attack you see.

For your information I used the word 'overriding' in my post because I wasn't necessarily including all male posters on this thread. I really had the OP and meow in mind.

Don't let that stop you though!

thechairmanmeow · 03/06/2012 19:58

i would beachcomer if whenever i presented an opinion i wasnt met with
'ohh, we ladiez should just behave then"
or
"goodness, i've been manspalined to, thank god theres a man here to tell us what to do'

my tone would be alot more amicable if it could be, the hostile nature of this enviroment, for a man, means that my tone has to be garded, sorry.

Beachcomber · 03/06/2012 19:53

Meow, you might have more luck fulfilling your earnest desire to discuss feminism if you didn't tell feminists that they are 'fighting demons in their heads' when they discuss feminist analysis.

HTH.

chibi · 03/06/2012 19:53

i want to care about what you post meowsy, really i do, but if you could just work on your tone, it might be easier for me to bother reading to the end of your sentences

possibly

VashtiBunyan · 03/06/2012 19:52

This is just getting too complicated. Now we have have to both an inner gender identity and inner demons as well. Do the demons have to have their own gender identity or can they share mine when I find it?

Pan · 03/06/2012 19:51

Lordy, Beach. I was arguing against your post, not you personally! That's one of the disciplines of posting round here. I just found your 'summation', as I said, wildly inaccurate. Sorry to disagree with you but that's what debating entails. IF you stop seeing it as 'personal' that would be good.

StarsAndBoulevards · 03/06/2012 19:50

Hang on, internet connection's dodgy in the kitchen.

amillionyears · 03/06/2012 19:50

I have reported him

SardineQueen · 03/06/2012 19:48

"I think a lot of men need to work on being more appealing to feminists."

Grin Grin Grin

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