Conway Hall no-platforms Rad Fem Event

Can it be held in an open space somewhere? I don't know London, but is there some common land where it could be held, or some sympathetic community owned land?

I think it will be very hard to find a large enough venue for 300 woman, a creche, a history of the venue owners being harassed for taking the booking, in central London and 6 weeks to go till the conference.

Those topics all sound fantastic, don't they?

Do you think another venue will be found?

I think it's all entirely wrong. Other groups, political parties and special interest groups are permitted to hold meetings without the threat of others antagonising them.

If I went to a labour party conference (which i wouldn't) I wouldn't expect to find a Tory toff on the stage lecturing about grammar schools.

You know from the reaction to this conference you would think radical feminists have a lot of power. I wish!

The issue here is about whether a seld identified group of people can meet together to discuss their issues. I have no problem with Trans people meeting together to discuss issues of concern to them. Radical feminists just want to do the same.

But the huge issue with the argument twisty puts forward there is right at the start.

'Is there anything more demeaning than a bunch of people with higher status than you sitting around debating the degree to which they find you human?'

That is exactly what both sides of this debate are saying, no? Both sides will bridle at the idea that they might have 'higher status', both say this is about identity and other people's rights to define it.

So it is pointless to start the argument by effectively saying 'well, I won this argument already, here is the winning premise'.

Incidentally the coat and boots and assumptions are talking about when I was 15-25ish.

These days I wear bog standard clothes and don't get out much!

I like a lot of Twisty's writings. I don't get her political trans-stance, not yours. But then I don't think you get mine, so it's a bit all round, isn't it?

'And this whole transpeople debate is just another stick with which to beat radical feminists?

Genuine question. Think. Dig deep.

I suspect that latter.'

I agree Beachcomber. This situation is a way to attack organised radical feminists and it's worked hasn't it? All my life I've heard people attack feminism because 'it's not fair' on men. Every issue that women seek to organise on is faced with the same whine of what about the men. Sexual violence - men suffer that too so you may not speak about violence against women alone. Domestic violence - men suffer that too so you may not speak about violence against women alone. Health inequalities - what about cancers that men suffer from? Abortion - what about the man's rights? Parenting - what about a man's right to be a father. Women only space is hard fought for in every arena and bitterly contested.

This isn't about a "trans debate" it's about whether FAAB women should be allowed to gather by themselves to talk about things that affect FAAB women around the world.

I haven't read your links, too close to bedtime.

Agree with all of that.

I also have the "male brain" and the "feminine" looks, even apparently when wearing a massive army coat and huge boots

For what it's worth, some radical feminists completely condemn the whole idea of feminists having a "trans debate."

For example, Twisty Faster at "I Blame the Patriarchy." here and here.

At least one or two radical feminist contributors on MN have cited her views in support of their arguments on other issues but have made no mention of their diametric opposition to her views on trans men and women.

She gives an excellent explanation of the reasons why such a "debate" is all wrong in the first link.

I look feminine not because I do "beauty" but because I'm small and short. I have been told though that I have a male brain (what ever that is) and I am assertive. Why should appearance match with personality and why shouldn't men wear skirts and carry poodles in handbags if it floats their boat, without someone saying "hey you are a women" or anyone questioning their sex or gender. If only we could get past the gender stereotyping it might be possible for some men to just accept they are feminine men rather than be riven with angst. It seems to me that the transgender community face a lot of violence and discrimination which won't be made better just by stamping passports or changing birth certificates.

rulers

No it doesn't work like that
You aren't a person to get to know and take as is
You are a woman and therefore behave like this and can't do that and any deviation from this stereotype will be met with slack-jawed incomprehension

Hehehe, yes to all of those, except the maths bit. Though I might have been had it not been for my teacher at a crucial age listening to Test Match Special throughout our lessons. Irony?

I don't even know what it is he finds problematic. Luckily my boss, though a sexist arsehole when it comes to his personal life, takes me as he finds me and is not threatened if I have better grammar than him or something.

Resonates with me, rulers, enjoyed that post.

So you look "feminine" (or actually just having strongly female appearance even when not adorned with too many gender trappings) and then your personality doesn't tie in, in the expected way.

Something as simple as having blonde hair and doing something like playing pool quite well / being a good driver / drinking pints / being good at maths. Cue a vast, vast number of males quite literally not being able to understand this at all in any way shape or form. Literal brain version of "computer says no".

Masculine should be in "" because I am just me.

Gender is "fuzzy". And so it should be, cos generally it's a load of bullshit. Sex isn't. (apart from the tiny number of intersex people - this isn't and never has been about intersex people).

I have infinite sympathy with those struggling with gender. I do too. I got called a "complicated bird" the other day. I'm a) not a bird and b) not complicated. I am, though, too complicated to fit into one of that man's little boxes into which women should fit. If he only paid a teeny bit of attention to what I say and do, he will see I am perfectly straightforward. I'm Northern, ffs, and pretty much brought up to to be what you see is what you get. That my "complicated" bits were more masculine than he could deal with is not my problem. Admittedly, my outer persona is quite feminine and I think he feels I fooled him...